Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

It takes a sharp mind, a strategy and a plan.

That didn't work, Trump got elected!
What kind of Sharp mind uses words like "Bigly?"
The last time we had a Comical Politician of this class was "Comical Ali" remember him? Saddam's Information minister, no doubt sooner or later Trump will give him the job of dealing with the press.
Oh hang on, was that his female relative that just got the push?
Sorry I'll have to stop, this is just too hilarious!

 

[flecc]

Well they certainly got "Different" spelt B.i.z.a.r.r.e.

Voting that way for the extreme could be the first step in the direction of revolutionary action.

If the bizarre choices don't succeed, who knows what way the electorate will swing. They may placidly go back to the mediocre by voting, or they may get increasingly stroppy and disruptive.
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[oldgroaner]

Voting that way for the extreme could be the first step in the direction of revolutionary action.

If the bizarre choices don't succeed, who knows what way the electorate will swing. They may placidly go back to the mediocre by voting, or they may get increasingly stroppy and disruptive.
.
.

And flecc that is my concern over this Brexit nonsense, I don't think the Westminster Flying Circus has grasped that the people want really big changes that benefit them.
When they don't materialise we are all in Danger from public Disorder.
Let us hope I am wrong.

 

[Kudoscycles]

There are a few practical problems with Trump wanting to bring jobs back to the US.and May wanting Brits to be retrained ro replace EU workers.
General Electric have many joint ventures with Chinese partners,these are often high volume medical equipment,syringes etc or they are precise printed circuit type work. This work is often very repetitive and normally performed by young girls in China.
Can you imagine such work transferring to a 20 stone plus steel worker in the rust belt.
Similarly with Brexit,can we imagine that British people will readily perform the hard,low paid jobs in the care or hospitality industries,the government cannot afford to pay for social care at the moment so wage rises won't happen in the future.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

The main achievement of brexit regarding immigration is that we will be able to manage the pull factor. Blair suggested that the most reduction would be about 12%, from about 350,000 down to 270,000 a year.

 

[Kudoscycles]

OK, calm down or else you might lay an egg!

It becomes clearer every day how Farage managed to pull off BREXIT and how Trump won the White House. Insults and slur worked reasonably well in the late 1990s and through into the 2000s. Ordinary voting people now understand the tactic and it is exploding in the faces of the perpetrators in the form of hilarious defeats.

Trump and May are in the position they are because the establishment in both the US and the U.K. ignored so many in the poorer regions of both countries. Osborne realised this but his northern powerhouse was all talk,will Trump and May deliver on their promises or will they also be just talk?
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

The main achievement of brexit regarding immigration is that we will be able to manage the pull factor. Blair suggested that the most reduction would be about 12%, from about 350,000 down to 270,000 a year.

What a load of rubbish, the numbers will rise, especially if Brexit actually succeeds, and since when has the Government EVER controlled the immigration of none EU citizens over whom it has control with the powers already available to them?
They already Can do that, they haven't, so why not, and why believe that they will in future.
Based on WHAT EVIDENCE?
The idea is a none starter.

 

[Woosh]

There are a few practical problems with Trump wanting to bring jobs back to the US.and May wanting Brits to be retrained ro replace EU workers.
General Electric have many joint ventures with Chinese partners,these are often high volume medical equipment,syringes etc or they are precise printed circuit type work. This work is often very repetitive and normally performed by young girls in China.
Can you imagine such work transferring to a 20 stone plus steel worker in the rust belt.
Similarly with Brexit,can we imagine that British people will readily perform the hard,low paid jobs in the care or hospitality industries,the government cannot afford to pay for social care at the moment so wage rises won't happen in the future.
KudosDave

May has only to deliver a hard brexit, Trump will have a much tougher time. His main promise to bring jobs back to the USA is unachievable because progress in robotics will destroy jobs in the USA faster than any other economic factor.

 

[Woosh]

What a load of rubbish, the numbers will rise, especially if Brexit actually succeeds, and since when has the Government EVER controlled the immigration of none EU citizens over whom it has control with the powers already available to them?
They already Can do that, they haven't, so why not, and why believe that they will in future.
Based on WHAT EVIDENCE?
The idea is a none starter.

OG, you are so absorbed in your own arguments that you can't see even the obvious when it comes from the opposite camp. Brexit means taking back control. Brexit will have succeeded when we are no longer in the EU, regardless of any deal.
The reason previous governments did not want to control immigration is because immigration means economic growth. More people stimulates demand side.

 

[oldtom]

. Brexit means taking back control. Brexit will have succeeded when we are no longer in the EU, regardless of any deal.

In your dreams! What control would that be that isn't within our gift right now and has always been there?

All the controls necessary with regard to immigration, customs, taxation and national security have never been in the hands of any other agency so why do you persist with this lie about taking back control?

It is only in your fantasies that things will be better for British people once we exit the EU - neither you nor any other proponent of secession has ever come up with a shred of evidence to suggest how, where and when the people of the UK might be better off socially, economically or in terms of security. It is all wishful thinking on the part of fools whose arrogance allows them to actually believe that we in the UK are superior to other races and creeds.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

The tories are going from bad to worse! This news emanating from the opinion of the MP for mid-Norfolk reflects perfectly the kind of thinking that underscores every piece of tory policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39097019

Tom

 

[Woosh]

oldtom, brexit has not happened yet. Let's just wait and see.

 

[tillson]

Is there no end to the lies tories will purvey to justify their continuing existence as an apology for a government?

This morning on the Marr show, the interviewer challenged, (ever so gently!), the tory chairman, Patrick McLoughlin, about forthcoming tory cuts to disability benefits.

McLoughlin claimed that his government was 'very generous' to the disabled, spending over £50bn a year on the disabled.

Sadly, as McLoughlin knows perfectly well, that is not the view of the United Nations who just over three months ago published a report, following an investigation into the UK's treatment of people with disabilities.

This is what the UK's Disability News Service had to say about the tory government's policy on the disabled following the UN investigation found that the government was guilty violating the rights of disabled people and in breach of the UN convention.

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/uns-conclusion-that-uk-violated-disability-rights-is-vindication-for-activists/

Did Marr press the matter with McLoughlin, knowing that he had avoided a truthful answer and simply trotted out an unlikely statistic to divert attention away from the reality? No, of course he didn't! It really wouldn't have mattered which BBC stooge had asked the question - Robinson or Kuenssberg would have given the liar just as easy a ride - as they are not there to discredit the tory party, being as they are a part of it and paid dto support the government line.

If anyone needed any further evidence that the tory party will ride roughshod, not only over the poor and the disabled but over any opposition either at home or internationally-based, it's right here, right now!

Tom

The problem with disability benefits is that the system is abused. It has become the Holy Grail of the career benefits claimant. It is what they strive for.

Just put a disability claimant at one end of an army assault course and a big-Mac & fries at the other. Stand back and watch 'em go!

 

[flecc]

Just put a disability claimant at one end of an army assault course and a big-Mac & fries at the other. Stand back and watch 'em go!

I think you could probably sell this to ITV as a program idea, we've has similar in the past.
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[KTM Bike Industries UK]

OG, you are so absorbed in your own arguments that you can't see even the obvious when it comes from the opposite camp. Brexit means taking back control. Brexit will have succeeded when we are no longer in the EU, regardless of any deal.
The reason previous governments did not want to control immigration is because immigration means economic growth. More people stimulates demand side.

"taking back control" of what?

Our borders, you mean like Britain First keep going on about, we're can't refuse entry to anyone apparently... no control.

Until this week, when they are now complaining about the UK refusing entry to EU citizens. Which "Leave" seem to have said was impossible.

Cleary, we have control currently,.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, you are so absorbed in your own arguments that you can't see even the obvious when it comes from the opposite camp. Brexit means taking back control. Brexit will have succeeded when we are no longer in the EU, regardless of any deal.
The reason previous governments did not want to control immigration is because immigration means economic growth. More people stimulates demand side.

Sorry but it is you, not I that is mistaken

The Public doesn't simply want the Government to take back Control
The public wants to take back control of the Government!
That is what it voted for, why can't you see that?

This is one of the problems, many people see but they do not Observe the reality of the mood of the Public.
You are too tied up in wondering what you can personally make out of this deal to see the REAL issues driving Brexit
The Public aren't satisfied with the way it they are being Governed.

Being in or out of the EU will not satisfy the public nor will business friendly policies .
Only improvement to the circumstances of individual voters will matter.
Provide anything less and there will be big trouble, no matter how the Companies and Businesses thrive.
The real trouble starts the day we leave the EU, what you, the Government and the Public are prepared to seek and accept may not coincide, and frankly no one on the Brexit side has said anything that the Public can see as constituting either the change they are expecting , or better times.
Saying it will take ten years for instance simply won't do.

 

[anotherkiwi]

He's become The President of The United States of America. That doesn't happen by accident. It takes a sharp mind, a strategy and a plan. You are falling into the same trap of underestimating your enemy again. Writing them off as idiots. It will result in humiliation!

To win, you must give credit to your opponents strengths and achievements.

You forgot: money, lies, unethical behaviour, manipulation via social media, false truths, made up facts... And that the GOP has been fixing the electoral system for many years so that Democrats can't get elected easily.

 

[oldgroaner]

The problem with disability benefits is that the system is abused. It has become the Holy Grail of the career benefits claimant. It is what they strive for.

Just put a disability claimant at one end of an army assault course and a big-Mac & fries at the other. Stand back and watch 'em go!

The problem with people who make facetious remarks is that they fail to understand they are talking about fellow human beings, and open their mouths and allow idiotic stereotype remarks like you just made to pour out.

Even the logic fails somewhat, for after all if they are Disabled there are two reasons they will not be able or motivated to do as you claim

1. They are physically incapable of completing the course
2. They can afford to buy the Big Mac and Fries with their benefits

Still thanks for the attempt at humour.

 

[oldgroaner]

oldtom, brexit has not happened yet. Let's just wait and see.

Tom's post wasn't about Brexit, was it?

 

[oldtom]

oldtom, brexit has not happened yet. Let's just wait and see.

Can't you see how ridiculous that is? It is utter madness to throw away the security, economic advantages and trading arrangements that exist now for a big fat zero.....or perhaps you'd like to show the evidence of a better alternative to the EU?

You are the archetypal 'Brexit' fanboy with no clue whatsoever as to what the future might look like outside the EU but you just don't care; neither for yourself nor for the majority of the UK population who did not vote for stupidity. It seems you insist that everybody must suffer just so you can exercise your mad fantasy, empowered by a miniscule majority in a referendum that would produce a different result if it were repeated next week.

Tom