Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Ofcourse it would be wrong to wear a bikini, they were not on a beach.
If the Mufti's culture supported / promoted canabilism by your argument visitors should join in. The fact is women are oppressed in all cultures and more so in the one being discussed. Its wrong. Le Pen was perfectly within her right to point out the idiocy if their oppression.
If a culture supported dog fighting, bear baiting or bull fighting would you expect visitors to also do the same and justify it by saying its their culture. Throughout ages many cultures have practised illogical oppresive behaviours. This is simply an example of such.Le Pen as a Western potential head of state infact had a duty to point out the prejudice, control and oppresion of this situation. She was absolutely in the right.
Enlightenment of whom and which culture ?
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There are many advantages to both individuals and businesses through membership of the EU which may or may not apply to other foreign nationals or their states. If you view 'Brexit' as an opportunity to withhold all those advantages achieved since 1973, what do you hope to achieve by that?
How can we be expected to manage trade and even take holidays in EU countries if the freedom of movement is curtailed? Surely you must realise that those other countries you mention from outside the EU do not lose anything through 'Brexit' but we would lose lots of goodwill from our ex-EU partners and they would be equally disadvantaged.
What do you think is the point of the tory extremist PM telling the public that they want to achieve the best possible deal; a nice smooth transition; the retention of friendly relations, etc? I really think you just don't get the magnitude of what 'Brexit' means and it looks as though you want to take away from ordinary people elsewhere in the EU, those benefits that all members of the union have enjoyed, including us.
Tom
Well, she's ten years away from that age, giving plenty of time for the policy to produce results and time to rescind it before the ten years was up.
Seriously, such a policy has often been predicted in literature and film and could well be a part of the future. Not new either, the Inuit people for most of their existence practiced a form of euthanasia by abandoning to be frozen to death those who couldn't keep up, which generally meant the elderly.
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Danidl
The Dani tribe of Western Africa still have the custom of removing fingers of mothers who lose offspring. The women have their fingers chopped off voluntarily.
At some stage we must ugnore religion, cultures and beliefs and simply say this is wrong.
Women being forced by any mechanism to cover up their faces is wrong.
The Dani tribe of Western Africa still have the custom of removing fingers of mothers who lose offspring. The women have their fingers chopped off voluntarily.
At some stage we must ugnore religion, cultures and beliefs and simply say this is wrong.
Women being forced by any mechanism to cover up their faces is wrong.
Income - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Tax rate
Between €9,701 - €26,791 - - - - - - 14%
Between €26,792 - €71,826 - - - - - 30%
Between €71,827 - €152,108 - - - - 41%
Above €151,108 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 45%
A bit high in the second band but doesn't look too severe otherwise.
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There are advantages to big businesses that sell into more than one EU country but little or even negative to small businesses that don't. You may disagree with that view but there are millions of small businesses in the latter category. From the individual point of view, relations with Europe have been good even before we joined the EU, can you see why they should be worse than before 73 after brexit? Nobody is going to suggest that you won't be able to move to the EU, as long as you can support yourself, and vice versa. Benefits are going to be cut and some people without good jobs will have to move on. Why do you have to see malice in this simple reasoning?
It seems to me that your posts contain periodically exaggerations, insults for the opposite camp and sorrow that communism is not what people want instead of factual discussions. Something I would expect from readers of the Express rather than here.
I have no idea what that paragraph means. For example, you mention communism - where does that come from? You also mention the Express but I don't understand what it is you expect from the readers of that rag. It isn't something I read.
As for the the opposite camp, they deserve the contempt of all decent-minded citizens for what they have brought upon this country through their ignorance and stupidity but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.
If you have the time, (I don't), you might wish to read the Amnesty International report just published which is quite damning of the fascist trend which they liken to a return towards the world of the 1930s. Who do you think might be the prime movers in that trend? I can tell you it certainly isn't Jeremy Corbyn.
Here is a link to an easy section of their report but you can find the whole document using any internet search engine.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur01/5342/2017/en/
Tom
oldtom,
Linking brexit to atrocity perpetrated elsewhere is an exaggeration.
I did link exaggerations to readers of the Express.
Linking brexit to atrocity perpetrated elsewhere is an exaggeration.
I did link exaggerations to readers of the Express.
... My red line issue is mutilation.
However you are looking to religion as a lifestyle choice.. whether to go with the boho style or late hippie
. I t it is not. To a believer religion is the reason why they are on the earth. If you truely believe that the God who made the entire universe has instructed you to do something are you not going to do it will a will and a half and be prepared to give up the life he \she\ it gave you and that of others?. To a believer anything else is not logical.
Cultural norms are much simpler to change and are the results of fashion.and fashioned by results.
What determines what is right or wrong? To the cleric in the middle ages, the burning of a possible witch was more right than the right of a woman who could have been a witch to life? To the drone pilot in Nebraska, it is the blowing up of a wedding party because there might be a contain a "terrorist". To Chinese party members it could be the streaks of individualism where there should be collective unity. Unfortunately our notions of right and wrong are also fashioned by cultural norms in our society.
We might like to think we have it sussed out. ... In fact we need to believe so but are we objectively correct .
Don't get me wrong I also like looking at womens faces etc ... But there can be other cultural forces at work . I was surprised to see that the majority of Viet women in Saigon were wearing facemasks while on their bikes.. Not for the air pollution, which was bad, but to keep away a suntanned look as pale face was viewed as more attractive.
Danidl
The choice of the girls to wear masks to preserve skin colour is their own choice, yes perhaps with cultural, fashion or even financial implications yet still their own choice.
A woman visiting the Mufti has no choice, women wear the veil to receive his blessing or support.
I could just repost my previous post, so we,ll just have to agree to differ. I do see your point but disagree with it. Beneath any culture or belief sets there are fundamental principles of right and wrong . Encouraging women, well almost forcing them,to cover faces is (IMHO) intrinsically wrong. ( but so is encouraging females to chase a particular look through surgery as we do in our culture)
Its sexism displayed at its strongest. Its wrong by any objective measure.
The choice of the girls to wear masks to preserve skin colour is their own choice, yes perhaps with cultural, fashion or even financial implications yet still their own choice.
A woman visiting the Mufti has no choice, women wear the veil to receive his blessing or support.
I could just repost my previous post, so we,ll just have to agree to differ. I do see your point but disagree with it. Beneath any culture or belief sets there are fundamental principles of right and wrong . Encouraging women, well almost forcing them,to cover faces is (IMHO) intrinsically wrong. ( but so is encouraging females to chase a particular look through surgery as we do in our culture)
Its sexism displayed at its strongest. Its wrong by any objective measure.
Oppression, mental or physical cruelty, classification of other humans as inferior are wrong. As cultural norms they remain wrong. As religious beliefs they remain wrong.
They always have been recognised as such by the enlightened and always will be.
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You mean more than the 0.005% Apple pay in Ireland? Yes.
Corporate tax is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe. But you do realise these corporations know how to avoid tax?
Look I also come from the same liberal western background as yourself and would share the same values. But there are other values and other societies which value other attributes and it is an arrogance to believe that ours is the only true way.....And that we are the enlightened ones
This has gone far to heavy for a discussion which started in whether a woman would or not wear a scarf so I am bailing out.
From the Express
"
'There's just TOO MANY people' Brexiteer, 17, unemployed 'because of MASS immigration'
A TEENAGE Brexiteer has blasted David Davis after he warned EU labour would continue for “years and years” in a passionate radio rant.
Stephen, 17, from Chichester, who was unable to vote in last year’s referendum, ripped into the Brexit Secretary after he said the Government was not about to “suddenly shut the door” on foreign workers during a visit to Estonia.
Speaking to Nigel Farage on his LBC show, the youngster expressed his disappointment in not being able to secure a job – which he believed had a direct link to the level of immigration in the UK.
He said: “I’m unemployed, I really want a job and politicians like David Davis say we need immigrants because young people don’t work hard enough, they won’t do the jobs that immigrants do they want benefits – it’s simply not true.
“I work damn hard and I’m really looking for a job, there’s just simply too many people out there in the jobs market and that’s because of overpopulation
He said competition was too fierce to be able to secure a job.
The former Ukip leader asked if the teenager would consider taking on a low-paid job.
“I would take any job,” replied Stephen. “I wouldn’t take a really low-paid job, like £2.95 an hour or something but I would work just as hard as an immigrant would.”
Farage agreed with the caller and called out politicians for “slagging off” the caller’s generation.
He added: ”From Tony Blair onwards there have been many politicians slagging off your generation for being useless, lazy and wanting something for nothing."
“I was trying to find a job on a jobs website, one job [had] 179 applications – how am I meant to compete against that?” said Stephen.
“It’s simply not true that young people don’t work hard. All my friends we all want jobs, we’re all looking for jobs but there’s simply too many people in this country.
“And the amount of immigrants that come in, it’s a mass amount. I know we need immigrants we definitely them for the economy to run but we simply have too many and we need to control our borders.”
On the face of it that seems like a simple reaction from a disappointed youth faced with a difficult job finding situation, however it could also be a pre arranged UKIP stunt to affect the local by elections as there are a couple of jarring statements in there such as this one.
"“I work damn hard and I’m really looking for a job, there’s just simply too many people out there in the jobs market and that’s because of overpopulation"
How do you work "Damned hard" if you've never had a job?
And this
"“I was trying to find a job on a jobs website, one job [had] 179 applications – how am I meant to compete against that?” said Stephen."
How did he know the exact number of applicants? and assuming he did, how do the immigrants get those jobs against that level of competition?
It looks like a UKIP set up situation, and the Express is promoting it, an interesting move away from cosying up to the Government !
"
'There's just TOO MANY people' Brexiteer, 17, unemployed 'because of MASS immigration'
A TEENAGE Brexiteer has blasted David Davis after he warned EU labour would continue for “years and years” in a passionate radio rant.
Stephen, 17, from Chichester, who was unable to vote in last year’s referendum, ripped into the Brexit Secretary after he said the Government was not about to “suddenly shut the door” on foreign workers during a visit to Estonia.
Speaking to Nigel Farage on his LBC show, the youngster expressed his disappointment in not being able to secure a job – which he believed had a direct link to the level of immigration in the UK.
He said: “I’m unemployed, I really want a job and politicians like David Davis say we need immigrants because young people don’t work hard enough, they won’t do the jobs that immigrants do they want benefits – it’s simply not true.
“I work damn hard and I’m really looking for a job, there’s just simply too many people out there in the jobs market and that’s because of overpopulation
He said competition was too fierce to be able to secure a job.
The former Ukip leader asked if the teenager would consider taking on a low-paid job.
“I would take any job,” replied Stephen. “I wouldn’t take a really low-paid job, like £2.95 an hour or something but I would work just as hard as an immigrant would.”
Farage agreed with the caller and called out politicians for “slagging off” the caller’s generation.
He added: ”From Tony Blair onwards there have been many politicians slagging off your generation for being useless, lazy and wanting something for nothing."
“I was trying to find a job on a jobs website, one job [had] 179 applications – how am I meant to compete against that?” said Stephen.
“It’s simply not true that young people don’t work hard. All my friends we all want jobs, we’re all looking for jobs but there’s simply too many people in this country.
“And the amount of immigrants that come in, it’s a mass amount. I know we need immigrants we definitely them for the economy to run but we simply have too many and we need to control our borders.”
On the face of it that seems like a simple reaction from a disappointed youth faced with a difficult job finding situation, however it could also be a pre arranged UKIP stunt to affect the local by elections as there are a couple of jarring statements in there such as this one.
"“I work damn hard and I’m really looking for a job, there’s just simply too many people out there in the jobs market and that’s because of overpopulation"
How do you work "Damned hard" if you've never had a job?
And this
"“I was trying to find a job on a jobs website, one job [had] 179 applications – how am I meant to compete against that?” said Stephen."
How did he know the exact number of applicants? and assuming he did, how do the immigrants get those jobs against that level of competition?
It looks like a UKIP set up situation, and the Express is promoting it, an interesting move away from cosying up to the Government !
