Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Nurse! The "BREXITERs" are back in Mr Oldgroaner's room again. No, this time they are inside the wardrobe, not sat on top of it. 50 mg! Are you absolutely sure about that?

Oh my god! NURSE!!!!!!

This Brexit leaver bug has now claimed tillson as well as Zlatan, fortunately it seems confined to people susceptible to unrealistic promises and inclined to tunnel vision.

 

[Zlatan]

Nurse! The "BREXITERs" are back in Mr Oldgroaner's room again. No, this time they are inside the wardrobe, not sat on top of it. 50 mg! Are you absolutely sure about that?

Oh my god! NURSE!!!!!!

This Brexit leaver bug has now claimed tillson as well as Zlatan, fortunately it seems confined to people susceptible to unrealistic promises and inclined to tunnel vision.

But your buddy was showing symptoms a couple of days ago, he,s contemplating jumping ship if Blair takes the helm.
Wonder what you,d be saying to us if we had Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden championing leave, and don't tell me they are both dead because neither are any more dead than Blair's political career.
I,m convinced he,s being paid by May.
Leavers could not have picked a better leader for remain. Ah ah ah...Dont worry about the co op window OG, we,ve all see what's on display plenty now.I,d go home if I were you, you are frightening the kids, mind you must be sick of all that humble pie you,ve been living on recently. You must be sick of it.
Blair.But I don't want Blair to agree with me. I,d take up brexiteering OG, at least it has a future.

 

[oldgroaner]

But your buddy was showing symptoms a couple of days ago, he,s contemplating jumping ship if Blair takes the helm.
Wonder what you,d be saying to us if we had Sadam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden championing leave, and don't tell me they are both dead because neither are any more dead than Blair's political career.
I,m convinced he,s being paid by May.
Leavers could not have picked a better leader for remain. Ah ah ah...Dont worry about the co op window OG, we,ve all see what's on display plenty now.I,d go home if I were you, you are frightening the kids.

Look you really don't have to keep trying so hard, relax and calm yourself, who knows the impossible might happen and you stop posting nonsense, and maybe even on Topic!

 

[Zlatan]

Look you really don't have to keep trying so hard, relax and calm yourself, who knows the impossible might happen and you stop posting nonsense, and maybe even on Topic!

That's fine OG, if you cant accept reality a great big dose of denial works wonders...Just pretend Blair is not involved.
And BTW Tom did say he,d change allegiance rather than follow Blair..
Blair is looking for helpers, you could volunteer and use all your posts as evidence of your loyalty to the cause...

 

[Kudoscycles]

Question to Brexiters....even the best scenario of trade with the EU has been described as difficult,the worst is expensive.
So which countries in the world will we be looking towards to make up the shortfall in our EU trade.
As no Brexiter including this government seems to answer such an important and simple question that should frighten the Brexiters off the thread.
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

Doubling exports to China and increasing those to USA by 33% are realistic targets which would almost replace lost trade. Turkey is looking likely to greatly increase trade( the BAE deal is felt by some to be only a start)
India, Pakistan and South America's have potential to eventually bit only replace our lost EU trade but increase it , but it very much depends who you listen to ( you know already who I am listening to)
Fact is there will be deficit for some time but there are without doubt developing markets " capable" of reducing our current trade deficit IF country take attitude we can do so.
Folk who say it cant be done certainly wont be the ones doing so.
Besides way things are looking will EU be buying so much of our stuff indefinitely ? I don't think so...
But we are going over old ground..like I said hundreds of pages ago " time will tell"..

Are we sure we,d lose trade to eu anyhow ? It would be worst case scenario.. Trade is mutually beneficial to both parties...in or out of eu...
Yoy,ve said yourself you will still be buying Audi...not sure what we sell to EU that comes anywhere near that at moment. Would VAG survive without UK purchases ? Merkel knows answer..
Might all be hypothetical anyway, Lords are going to feck up our negotiations...probably..

 

[Woosh]

Question to Brexiters....even the best scenario of trade with the EU has been described as difficult,the worst is expensive.
So which countries in the world will we be looking towards to make up the shortfall in our EU trade.
As no Brexiter including this government seems to answer such an important and simple question that should frighten the Brexiters off the thread.
KudosDave

I expect 20% reduction in trade with the EU in year 1 (2020) then recovery maybe in year 2 or 3. There is no real way to increase trade in year 1 and 2 with new markets. Trade takes time and effort to build up.
I expect the economy will grow again at faster pace from 2022. By 2025, we'll be back on track.

 

[oldgroaner]

Exports of what? Talk sense

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

the same stuff we currently export. Manufactured goods, oil, food, services.
Trade will be a bit more expensive but most will continue.

 

[Zlatan]

Exports of what? Talk sense

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Yep we don't sell that much now, you are correct, so what's your point ??"
If we don't export much...that doesn't take much replacing. If we do sell a lot to eu, as Woosh says, those sales can be replaced.
The world is a big place OG and as far as trade is concerned its getting bigger and bigger, except in eu, which is never going to see the increase that countries outside eu will see
India alone will in 20 years be buying more cars than whole of eu. ( again depends whose forecast you believe)
Markets throughout world are exploding, its being rather defeatist ( and wrong) to suggest UK can not compete, which if we can't we can't anywhere. The weak pound ( and our control over it) will ensure our competiveness. ( again if it does not, it would not if we stay in eu)

Basically if we cant be competive out of eu,with weak pound and our own completely free fiscal control we certainly can't be competitive in it , selling into what represents a declining market..
I don't understand how remainers see us as competitive at moment, when we plainly are not. Look at our trade deficit within eu, you remainers want to keep that. ?? That is senseless.
Just read HL investment and forecast reports. The big money investment is outside eu. We could be a big player in future world growth or a minor player ,playing under eu regs within eu.

But hopefully this is exactly what mp,s should be debating. Lets hope they are rather more open minded than most in here, we do seem to be rather a conservative bunch. ( note conservative with small c) Which IMHO is a big shame for our future. Yes , we could stay in the safe slowly declining EU, working for the well being if entire EU, operating under its regimes both political and economic. Or we can take a risk, go on our own, work under our own rules for the benefit of UK and seek out those growing markets to not simply replace the eu trade but to increase on it.

I can honestly understand Tom,s worries about the social implications of Brexit, and to be honest I have seen things that really worry but the highest argument against Brexit on here has been a financial one, yet the folk quoting all the financial dire refuse to accept or even read the opinions of many renowned successful business/ economic experts, they would rather believe those saying of the doom.
Yes, experts get it wrong, on both sides.

 

[oldtom]

As no Brexiter including this government seems to answer such an important and simple question that should frighten the Brexiters off the thread.
KudosDave

The ones in this thread are too stupid to understand the madness of the ridiculous and unnecessary voyage to oblivion we are now embarked upon.

Because they are stupid, they have placed their trust in the biggest political shysters in the UK, and accepted all the lies they have been fed yet still cannot identify one, not even one, area in which UK citizens might be better off outside the EU.

As there is no prospect of any economic advantage via 'Brexit', no military or strategic benefits, what else is there? I know the answer but sadly, the 'Brexidiots' are all in denial of the truth.

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

China,especially in the last 5 years has upgraded its manufacturing capacity,both in terms of training,machinery and robotics,it is no longer a manufacturing region based upon solely cheap labour.
I am in the process of taking advantage of these new capacities to use China for new products,primarily for domestic sale but possibly selling into the EU but I have never found a product that I could sell to China.
China likes our Scots Whisky,tariff barriers removed could expand that business but it is very small revenue.
If we can't sell a product to the EU ,I cannot conceive how we can look to China to replace that loss.
What products can we sell to China to double our revenue to that country?
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

Once again,'The Canary' has published the real story about something. This time it's what happened in Sweden:

http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/20/turns-recent-terrorist-bombing-sweden-worlds-media-stayed-quiet/

Tom

 

[oldtom]

What products can we sell to China to double our revenue to that country?
KudosDave

Have they got enough idiots? We have an abundance here that we could flog them cheaply if they can make use of them.

That aside, I give in - I really don't think we make anything that the Chinese particularly need that they can't get elsewhere if they don't already make it themselves....cheaper.

The kind of profit margin British enterprises would expect from the few things that we do export would probably be laughed at by the Chinese. I actually believe that the current, steadily rising prices of things in the supermarkets that we like to buy, which are taken for granted by all those too young to remember pre-war days or even post-war rationing, may be beginning to concern some people. Those increases are becoming more apparent and I don't think we have seen the worst of it yet by any means.

'Brexit' means 'Brexit'!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

the same stuff we currently export. Manufactured goods, oil, food, services.
Trade will be a bit more expensive but most will continue.

We only export about 20% of the amount we need to survive, so what good will that do?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

Yep we don't sell that much now, you are correct, so what's your point ??"
If we don't export much...that doesn't take much replacing. If we do sell a lot to eu, as Woosh says, those sales can be replaced.
The world is a big place OG and as far as trade is concerned its getting bigger and bigger, except in eu, which is never going to see the increase that countries outside eu will see
India alone will in 20 years be buying more cars than whole of eu. ( again depends whose forecast you believe)
Markets throughout world are exploding, its being rather defeatist ( and wrong) to suggest UK can not compete, which if we can't we can't anywhere. The weak pound ( and our control over it) will ensure our competiveness. ( again if it does not, it would not if we stay in eu)

Basically if we cant be competive out of eu,with weak pound and our own completely free fiscal control we certainly can't be competitive in it , selling into what represents a declining market..
I don't understand how remainers see us as competitive at moment, when we plainly are not. Look at our trade deficit within eu, you remainers want to keep that. ?? That is senseless.
Just read HL investment and forecast reports. The big money investment is outside eu. We could be a big player in future world growth or a minor player ,playing under eu regs within eu.

But hopefully this is exactly what mp,s should be debating. Lets hope they are rather more open minded than most in here, we do seem to be rather a conservative bunch. ( note conservative with small c) Which IMHO is a big shame for our future. Yes , we could stay in the safe slowly declining EU, working for the well being if entire EU, operating under its regimes both political and economic. Or we can take a risk, go on our own, work under our own rules for the benefit of UK and seek out those growing markets to not simply replace the eu trade but to increase on it.

I can honestly understand Tom,s worries about the social implications of Brexit, and to be honest I have seen things that really worry but the highest argument against Brexit on here has been a financial one, yet the folk quoting all the financial dire refuse to accept or even read the opinions of many renowned successful business/ economic experts, they would rather believe those saying of the doom.
Yes, experts get it wrong, on both sides.

We have existed for many years by relying on the earnings from the Financial swindles of the City of London making up to a large degree for not paying our way by manufacturing, and even allowed the manufacturing to fall into the hands of Foreigners.
Now there is uncertainty on relying on either sort of income.
From my point of view I have maintained all along that some swindle will be devised that will keep the economy going at a lower level.
This will not prevent social disaster, as in the process the plight of people at the bottom of the social ladder will inevitably suffer hardship.
The better off that wanted Brexit for their own selfish reasons like yourself will do very nicely thank you.
But remember this simple fact.
Brexit is coming about because of a mass vote of the disenchanted voters who are expecting it to IMPROVE their situation.
This is not going to happen, and there is a ZERO chance of them not being worse off financially, or even more damaging having their hopes, rights, benefits and holidays take a drastically downward turn.
There will be trouble over this and yet you and those like you fail utterly to see this is coming.

 

[oldgroaner]

Once again,'The Canary' has published the real story about something. This time it's what happened in Sweden:

http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/20/turns-recent-terrorist-bombing-sweden-worlds-media-stayed-quiet/

Tom

It doesn't fit with the Right wing party line hence not reported,

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Daily Excess
"
David Davis WILL NOT ‘shut the door on low-skilled European Union migrants’ after Brexit
BRITAIN will still need low-skilled migrants from the European Union after ditching the crumbling Brussels bloc, David Davis has revealed.

And he so diplomatically has a scathing attack on the very voters for Brexit
"While visiting Estonia, the Brexit Secretary claimed the UK will not shut the door on low-skilled migrants, as he starts his Eastern European charm offensive.

He said: “In the hospitality sector, hotels and restaurants, in the social-care sector, working in agriculture, it will take time - it will be years and years before we get British citizens to do those jobs.”
And then not satisfied with that slur, he does it again
"He added: “We’re a successful economy, largely or partly at least because we have clever people, talented people come to Britain.

He might as well have added
And can't rely on the resident thick lazy half wits.

If he's really lucky people who voted for Brexit won't notice that they have been Betrayed.
Here's one who won't be impressed

Curiously there at the bottom it reads
"Comments unavailable"

 

[oldtom]

.....and in other news:

Nato has awarded a transport contract for Mosul to.........

http://newsthump.com/2016/12/09/isis-transports-links-decimated-after-nato-hand-mosul-contract-to-southern-rail/

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Immigrants from the EU - Do we need them?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154117642521854

Tom