Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I wonder how many people feel like they have just thrown their hardest & best punch at the big guy, but he's still standing and now has a menacing grin on his face? I bet there are a few.

I'm still happy with my vote, but I've always thought that the EU leaders will try and crush a similar democratic exercise in other countries by attempting to make life difficult for us. Britain doesn't make a very good punch-bag for a bully, nor should we.

But it has made the Blunder of a lifetime thanks to the lies of the press and politicians, and what happens in other European Countries and the way they react is none of our affair any more thanks to the Brexit Victory.
They were on our side now they're not by our misguided choice.
It they choose to threaten and bully us just what can we do about it?
Cry for our Mother?
And all or what? we will end up as Flecc has said paying up to trade with them while holding our noses and obeying their rules.
Instead of being a Major partner we will end up as a subservient Client state.
With no influence on the rules they impose.
You call that Victory?

 

[gray198]

It I d

But it has made the Blunder of a lifetime thanks to the lies of the press and politicians, and what happens in other European Countries and the way they react is none of our affair any more thanks to the Brexit Victory.
They were on our side now they're not by our misguided choice.
It they choose to threaten and bully us just what can we do about it?
Cry for our Mother?
And all or what? we will end up as Flecc has said paying up to trade with them while holding our noses and obeying their rules.
Instead of being a Major partner we will end up as a subservient Client state.
With no influence on the rules they impose.
You call that Victory?

Of I do love your optimistic outlook.

 

[tillson]

I see that the stock markets of the other major EU countries are hurting a lot more than ours. UK has closed higher than it was at the start of the week. 3% down on the day. Some EU countries are down 7%. The pound has recovered a bit too.

 

[gray198]

But it has made the Blunder of a lifetime thanks to the lies of the press and politicians, and what happens in other European Countries and the way they react is none of our affair any more thanks to the Brexit Victory.
They were on our side now they're not by our misguided choice.
It they choose to threaten and bully us just what can we do about it?
Cry for our Mother?
And all or what? we will end up as Flecc has said paying up to trade with them while holding our noses and obeying their rules.
Instead of being a Major partner we will end up as a subservient Client state.
With no influence on the rules they impose.
You call that Victory?

OG I do love your optimistic outlook

 

[oldgroaner]

It I d

Of I do love your optimistic outlook.

Take it or leave it as you will. it's neither optimistic not pessimistic, just the most likely outcome

 

[trex]

we are going to live through a very interesting time.
at the next general election, the electorate will deliver the real verdict on whether we want the EU or not. This time, Gove and Johnson can't repeat the same lies.

 

[oldgroaner]

I see that the stock markets of the other major EU countries are hurting a lot more than ours. UK has closed higher than it was at the start of the week. 3% down on the day. Some EU countries are down 7%. The pound has recovered a bit too.

Who cares about them,or do you for some reason?

 

[KirstinS]

we are going to live through a very interesting time.

Isn't that a Chinese curse ? To wish up in someone that they live "in interesting times "?

 

[oldgroaner]

we are going to live through a very interesting time.

As in a case of Hemorhhoids when out on your Ebike perhaps?

 

[oldgroaner]

we are going to live through a very interesting time.
at the next general election, the electorate will deliver the real verdict on whether we want the EU or not. This time, Gove and Johnson can't repeat the same lies. then a proper way forward will be found.

Or perchance "Back"?

 

[Gubbins]

I can't help feeling sorry for D.C.
he has so underestimated the real people and will now have to pay the price...

 

[tillson]

Who cares about them,or do you for some reason?

Yes, I do care about our friends within the EU. This exit, as far as I am concerned, has never been about hostility, it's about the UK having greater flexibility in the world. I mentioned the state of other countries stock market, and the recovery of ours to illustrate that things are not as bad as they looked at 10:00 am today and that we should judge success or failure on longer term performance.

I get the impression that you are itching for the UK to go into meltdown so that you can say I told you so. That is rather a perverse outlook, if I may say so.

 

[trex]

Or perchance "Back"?

Gove's & Johnson's theme 'who governs us' is to me obviously Westminster, not the EU but millions would agree with their message.
democracy is expensive but it does work. The people who gave them willingly power yesterday can take it away from them just as easily in a couple of years. This time, no lies.

 

[BrendanJ]

Hot news,
Just heard that Junker has tabled a motion to be discussed in we'd mtg to amend Maastrict treaty to make all future country referendums on the EU illegal.
FACT

 

[DAJ]

The decision has been made, like it or not we are where we are.

We are all lottery winners, living in the best country in the best time, ever! Never has the majority been as prosperous as we are now here in the UK.

Embrace the decision of your fellow countrymen, stop talking us down and look to the positives. Together as a nation we can repeat what our forbears achieved.

 

[BrendanJ]

Take it or leave it as you will. it's neither optimistic not pessimistic, just the most likely outcome

And that is also a fact! Ha ha ha

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, I do care about our friends within the EU. This exit, as far as I am concerned, has never been about hostility, it's about the UK having greater flexibility in the world. I mentioned the state of other countries stock market, and the recovery of ours to illustrate that things are not as bad as they looked at 10:00 am today and that we should judge success or failure on longer term performance.

I get the impression that you are itching for the UK to go into meltdown so that you can say I told you so. That is rather a perverse outlook, if I may say so.

So you care about the other countries by bailing out when the going gets tough and make a lame excuse about flexibility.
Just what flexibility is worth the separation of our country from one of the biggest potential markets in the world to play the "industrial Giant" when we are in fact a midget?
As for your impressions of my intentions, like you they are way off the mark.
It didn't matter how many points were raised questioning the wisdom of this foolish action, you really don't care about the future of the nation do you? just want to play out a fantasy of us being a major political power when we simply aren't, don't have the resources, production capacity and certainly neither management of politicians of a calibre to pull it off.
Watch how they now make a balls up of our withdrawal from the EU.
It was obvious to anyone who gave it even a moments thought that we could not hope to survive without the internal market of the EU, as there are far too many much more efficient producers of goods out there than we are, in fact the successful companies here are all foreign owned anyway, and quite likely to either move back to the mainland, or reduce capacity here to fulfil our own small internal market.
lets take BMW, which already has a plant in the Netherlands, and only sells one fifth of the cars it makes here in this country.
What's to stop them moving production, what can we offer to induce them to stay?
So much for greater flexibilty! to keep them here it will be more a case of bend over, close your eyes, grit your teeth and think of England while they Roger us with a Rag man's rusty trumpet.

 

[oldgroaner]

The decision has been made, like it or not we are where we are.

We are all lottery winners, living in the best country in the best time, ever! Never has the majority been as prosperous as we are now here in the UK.

Embrace the decision of your fellow countrymen, stop talking us down and look to the positives. Together as a nation we can repeat what our forbears achieved.

So you want us to go back to piracy on a grand scale?
Just Joking, but it simple isn't good enough to spout slogans, and exactly what in your opinion did our forbears achieve?
The industrial revolution? which bit do you want to cherry pick from that? the Rich mill owners with their vast estates built on the oppression of workers who lived in hovels and died early of overwork and industrial pollution?
Or earlier the Sugar planters who used slaves?
Or perhaps more recently my generation who worked in the 1950's like me in just as deadly conditions surrounded by asbestos which the company knew very well was killing us slowly till the EU banned it?
Our forbears acheived first unions and then were glad that the EU was putting together legislation aimed at improving the lives of the public, outlawing pollution, giving better working conditions, food standards and bringing in sensible health and safety controls, and even paid Holidays!
All of which are hated by the very people who have kidded you with this "Freedom" cry, in fact it is for freedom for them to make your lives a misery in the name of profit and they will.
"We are all lottery winners, living in the best country in the best time, ever! Never has the majority been as prosperous as we are now here in the UK."
Of course we are NOW, and who helped it to get that way?
Let me give you a clue: it wasn't the Tory Party or New Labour.
My generation are the forefathers you go on about and now you want to destroy what took so long to build.

 

[oldgroaner]

Hot news,
Just heard that Junker has tabled a motion to be discussed in we'd mtg to amend Maastrict treaty to make all future country referendums on the EU illegal.
FACT

Now all he has to do is get it through a very complex legislative process and signed by the 27 remaining countries before it can become law,each one of which has a veto
FACT! so in fact it's one person's motion who has to get it approved democratically by all the nations in the EU with no dissenting voices,(they all have a veto)
What do you rate his chances of success?
Remind me again, what was your point exactly?
Just another Euro Myth like all the others, isn't it?

 

[DAJ]

So you want us to go back to piracy on a grand scale?
Just Joking, but it simple isn't good enough to spout slogans, and exactly what in your opinion did our forbears achieve?
The industrial revolution? which bit do you want to cherry pick from that? the Rich mill owners with their vast estates built on the oppression of workers who lived in hovels and died early of overwork and industrial pollution?
Or earlier the Sugar planters who used slaves?
Or perhaps more recently my generation who worked in the 1950's like me in just as deadly conditions surrounded by asbestos which the company knew very well was killing us slowly till the EU banned it?
Our forbears acheived first unions and then were glad that the EU was putting together legislation aimed at improving the lives of the public, outlawing pollution, giving better working conditions, food standards and bringing in sensible health and safety controls, and even paid Holidays!
All of which are hated by the very people who have kidded you with this "Freedom" cry, in fact it is for freedom for them to make your lives a misery in the name of profit and they will.
"We are all lottery winners, living in the best country in the best time, ever! Never has the majority been as prosperous as we are now here in the UK."
Of course we are NOW, and who helped it to get that way?
Let me give you a clue: it wasn't the Tory Party or New Labour.
My generation are the forefathers you go on about and now you want to destroy what took so long to build.

Every generation faired better than the previous, they all suffered to get us where we are now and I am eternally grateful for their sacrifice. The majority have spoken, I am sorry you cannot accept that.

I stand by my statement and there has never been a better time or place to live. It has nothing to do with the political elite.

We are where we are, undermine it or embrace it, beauty of being here and now is you are free to make your own decision. Not the case everywhere!