Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

very true - but the door is on the other end:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/europe-plunged-crisis-britain-votes-leave-eu-european-union
there's a cliche in psychiatry that narcissists tend to elict reactions from others they are least able to tolerate(i.e. rejection), i think brexit involved just this

I have just read the article which you linked to in The Guardian. It makes some interesting points and brings home some of the uncertainty we all now face.

I was particularly drawn to a statement made by Martin Schultz who is quoted as saying, "the EU is the world’s biggest single market and Britain has just cut its ties with that market." Really? As I was reading this, I couldn't help but notice an advertisement for BMW cars at the top of the page, one in every five produced being sold in the UK.

 

[flecc]

"the EU is the world’s biggest single market and Britain has just cut its ties with that market." Really? As I was reading this, I couldn't help but notice an advertisement for BMW cars at the top of the page, one in every five produced being sold in the UK.

But looking at it this way can be too simplistic.

In our mutual trade, we buy cars from the mainland EU and equally produce cars for them.

If BMW etc no longer sell to us and Nissan etc no longer sell to them, that means a big reduction in the employed on each side, so we both end up worse off.

Economies are also about activity, not just about money, and it's well established that countries that trade with each other are economically stronger than those that don't. That's why globalisation is so strongly promoted.
.

 

[derf]

I have just read the article which you linked to in The Guardian. It makes some interesting points and brings home some of the uncertainty we all now face.

I was particularly drawn to a statement made by Martin Schultz who is quoted as saying, "the EU is the world’s biggest single market and Britain has just cut its ties with that market." Really? As I was reading this, I couldn't help but notice an advertisement for BMW cars at the top of the page, one in every five produced being sold in the UK.

that's a very balanced response. but the uk have just imho engaged in a incomprehensibly extreme act of economic self harm for misguided nationalist motives. one could hardly blame those defending the EU as a bloc if they consider some loss of trade with the UK entirely acceptable collateral dmaage for making it clear to others (geert wilders, marine le penn etc) leaving really isnt a good idea.

 

[derf]

it has. The Pound fell off the cliff in the early hours this morning.
Mark Carney's £250 billion war chest won't last long against the speculative 2,000 billionaires in the world. There is a tactic often seen in this sort of situation called 'dead cat bounce'. The traders will prize money out of the BoE until its coffers are completely empty. I'll give the BoE a week to capitulate.

i cant get my head around the damage
https://next.ft.com/content/84dcc868-39dd-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7
everyone at work is wandering around with similar dazed looks

 

[trex]

ITV interviewed a woman shopkeeper in Wales this morning. Why did you vote leave? She replied: the EU gave us the money to redevelop our town a few years ago. Now the town does not have the money to keep the public toilets opened. They closed all the toilets in town. I voted out because of it.
She is not alone.
Could 1.3m people have voted leave on irrelevant issues?

 

[derf]

ITV interviewed a woman shopkeeper in Wales this morning. Why did you vote leave? She replied: the EU gave us the money to redevelop our town a few years ago. Now the town does not have the money to keep the public toilets opened. They closed all the toilets in town. I voted out because of it.
She is not alone.
Could 1.3m people have voted leave on irrelevant issues?

speaking to colleague this am, both of us saying how we feel we misjudged the community we live in, so to speak, how incomprehensible it is that a majority actually really support views such as farage's or trump's?

 

[derf]

ITV interviewed a woman shopkeeper in Wales this morning. Why did you vote leave? She replied: the EU gave us the money to redevelop our town a few years ago. Now the town does not have the money to keep the public toilets opened. They closed all the toilets in town. I voted out because of it.
She is not alone.
Could 1.3m people have voted leave on irrelevant issues?

perhaps greater london should, liek monaco or lichtenstein, vote for independence/seperation from teh UK and rejoin the EU

 

[tillson]

ITV interviewed a woman shopkeeper in Wales this morning. Why did you vote leave? She replied: the EU gave us the money to redevelop our town a few years ago. Now the town does not have the money to keep the public toilets opened. They closed all the toilets in town. I voted out because of it.
She is not alone.
Could 1.3m people have voted leave on irrelevant issues?

I wonder how many people feel like they have just thrown their hardest & best punch at the big guy, but he's still standing and now has a menacing grin on his face? I bet there are a few.

I'm still happy with my vote, but I've always thought that the EU leaders will try and crush a similar democratic exercise in other countries by attempting to make life difficult for us. Britain doesn't make a very good punch-bag for a bully, nor should we.

 

[flecc]

perhaps greater london should, liek monaco or lichtenstein, vote for independence/seperation from teh UK and rejoin the EU

London's independence has been mooted here previously. Since we currently support so much of the rest of the UK, London would be incredibly wealthy as a separate entity. But of course with that certainty, it would never be politically allowed.

However, our strong vote for the EU here has already led to demands for greater autonomy and London isn't going to quietly accept all of the consequences of yesterday's decision.
.

 

[flecc]

Could 1.3m people have voted leave on irrelevant issues?

I think the majority of them did, blaming the EU for our governmental policies.

The Welsh in particular will regret their decision since I can't see a chancellor of any political persuasion replacing all the EU regional grants to Wales.
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[derf]

I wonder how many people feel like they have just thrown their hardest & best punch at the big guy, but he's still standing and now has a menacing grin on his face? I bet there are a few.

I'm still happy with my vote, but I've always thought that the EU leaders will try and crush a similar democratic exercise in other countries by attempting to make life difficult for us. Britain doesn't make a very good punch-bag for a bully, nor should we.

but which part of (to use a somewhat strange example) building public toilets for the Welsh amounts to bullying? Or what part of trying to protect UK jobs (i gather it is now certain tata will pull out of its uk steel plants, and moodys say its considering downgrading teh UK's triple A rating) amounts to a grinning bully?

 

[flecc]

I've always thought that the EU leaders will try and crush a similar exercise in other countries by attempting to make life difficult for us.

Despite the utterances from Junker et al, I don't think there will be bullying, since the mutual trade is a common interest. However, the EU countries are not going to allow any advantage from our move, so I'm sure they will continue to insist on the basics of free movement and a GDP proportional contribution to the EU budget.

I don't see us being one iota better off at the end of the long and complex process, and any feeling of being in control will long have faded into the reality of today's world where no-one is truly free or independent.
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[derf]

ITV interviewed a woman shopkeeper in Wales this morning. Why did you vote leave? She replied: the EU gave us the money to redevelop our town a few years ago. Now the town does not have the money to keep the public toilets opened. They closed all the toilets in town. I voted out because of it.
She is not alone.
Could 1.3m people have voted leave on irrelevant issues?

perhaps there is a darwin award in here somehwere
http://theslot.jezebel.com/man-who-voted-for-brexit-is-a-bit-shocked-his-vote-coun-1782553004

 

[tillson]

but which part of (to use a somewhat strange example) building public toilets for the Welsh amounts to bullying? Or what part of trying to protect UK jobs (i gather it is now certain tata will pull out of its uk steel plants, and moodys say its considering downgrading teh UK's triple A rating) amounts to a grinning bully?

I think you may have misunderstood me derf, I was referring to the EU grinning at us, the U.K., after we threw a punch at them yesterday. Agreed re lavatories for the Welsh.

I think there have been a few strong arm tactics used though, Barack's threats and a few others from within the EU making subtle threats. Not a good tactic to win people over and probably contributed to the result we have seen.

 

[gray198]

I think you may have misunderstood me derf, I was referring to the EU grinning at us, the U.K., after we threw a punch at them yesterday. Agreed re lavatories for the Welsh.

I think there have been a few strong arm tactics used though, Barack's threats and a few others from within the EU making subtle threats. Not a good tactic to win people over and probably contributed to the result we have seen.

Any threats are going to make the British rebel against them. It's in our nature. I think a lot of people have voted out to give the ''establshment'' a bloody nose. Mainly because they think no one is interested in their situation.

 

[oldgroaner]

Don't think so, our Clerics are very particular about who lives around here.
Just like to thank OG for his tireless contribution in cause of Brexit. He was surely worth 1000,s of votes in our victory.

Flud, do you have to keep on with these childish jibes?
I tried to warn you didn't I? we will soon see who was right.
If you've nothing sensible to say, do sit down so we can't hear your voice, that's a good chap.

 

[oldgroaner]

I'm sure the market will take a big dive today. There are no positive indicators.
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The joys of "Brexit Blunder Day" aka Independence Day, eh?

 

[oldgroaner]

I have just read the article which you linked to in The Guardian. It makes some interesting points and brings home some of the uncertainty we all now face.

I was particularly drawn to a statement made by Martin Schultz who is quoted as saying, "the EU is the world’s biggest single market and Britain has just cut its ties with that market." Really? As I was reading this, I couldn't help but notice an advertisement for BMW cars at the top of the page, one in every five produced being sold in the UK.

And in future you hope they will keep the factory open to sell one fifth of it's production? What will they do with the rest?

 

[flecc]

The joys of "Brexit Blunder Day" aka Independence Day, eh?

But there is some possible goods news in the new thread I've just posted on this link.
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[oldgroaner]

But there is some possible goods news in the new thread I've just posted on this link.
.

Sort of like watching your Mother in Law going over a cliff in your new car good news?