Brexit, for once some facts.

Those opinions have always been there. Nothing to do with Brexit. Although those that wish to remain are quite happy to resort to name calling and stereotyping. Is that all the remainers or just a few extremists??
no one has said the opinions are caused by Brexit. No one has said all Brexit voters are racist and I've never called anyone on here names or stereotyped.. .if you can find an example, I'll apologise.

My point was, racist idiots, who've always been racist idiots, pre and post brexit, and I'm sure in the future will continue to be racist idiots are in the vast majority of cases drawn to the leave camp, and indeed drawn to UKIP.

Or are you saying that I'm wrong in that point?
 
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Zlatan

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That's the best self portrait you have painted so far, even if it is little more that the same self important rant you made when you first appeared.
Not having much luck with your moral crusade are you?
Just a suggestion give up on this holy mission and post on topic for a change?

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At least you are predictable OG.
Yourself and KTM were ( rightly ) appalled at the idiot's rant KTM gave us link to, but you fail to see the similarities in your own posts. No doubt if the individual was questioned he ,d give some justification and attempt to belittle his questioners. All examples of insult on any site should simply not be permitted.
It shows the level you have achieved when you feel I am on a crusade for requesting both sides refrain from insult. You prove with your every post you are incapable of doing so and reinforce your inability to accept others opinions . Just like the racist does in KTM's example. IMHO your attitude is equally dangerous to the idiot's in the link. Both are inflamatory,bigoted and likely to cause offence rather than explain or compromise.
The sad fact is if people do not see the danger in these ,and their own,attitudes we will see riots and violence. Such as yourself will sit back and blame everyone else, when in reality you are equally to blame. Its always someone else causing the issues, time we all looked carefully at what each of us says.
 
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Why would they want us to stay when they are threatening all sorts of nasty things to us as if we have done some thing really terrible. We must have something they need. Maybe it's the billions of pounds every year?? Who knows
They are not threatening us. They are just saying if you leave the club you loose the benefits. Thats not a threat, its just a point, and its our choice.

They are also saying that if we throw out EU citizens they'll send back Brits, again that's not a threat, its a response to our threat.

Give me one example of threat from the EU?
 
Irish fearmongering again...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/taoiseach-hard-brexit-could-bring-return-of-armed-conflict-in-ireland-775835.html

"Any semblence to a return to what they call a hard border, or borders of the past, brings with it serious challenges for this country," he said.

"I don't mean just in terms of trade or economy, but what we had before - criminality and even armed conflict.

"I wouldn't want to be alarmist about it, but this is a political challenge here."

But its what we voted for itsn't?
 

gray198

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I've given cold hard facts... the direct comparison between the 2 prices... and I've said we've halved our margin. There is nothing in my statement that is either opinion or exaggerated.

The fact you're still fighting against facts, is rather worrying.
I've given cold hard facts... the direct comparison between the 2 prices... and I've said we've halved our margin. There is nothing in my statement that is either opinion or exaggerated.

The fact you're still fighting against facts, is rather worrying.

Is there anything anyone could say that would make you think this is a bad idea. Or are you of the belief this is a good idea no matter what?

I'd be interested to know were your red line is?
Is there anything anyone could say that would make you think this is a bad idea. Or are you of the belief this is a good idea no matter what?

I'd be interested to know were your red line is?
May be a silly question but would your prices come back down should the pound recover to previous levels?. That could happen if LePen was elected. Unlikely I know but after 2016 nothing can be ruled out
 
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gray198

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They are not threatening us. They are just saying if you leave the club you loose the benefits. Thats not a threat, its just a point, and its our choice.

They are also saying that if we throw out EU citizens they'll send back Brits, again that's not a threat, its a response to our threat.

Give me one example of threat from the EU?
I believe it's Merkel that is causing the problems regarding citizens. I don't think I've heard anyone say that is the intention of the government.
 

gray198

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no one has said the opinions are caused by Brexit. No one has said all Brexit voters are racist and I've never called anyone on here names or stereotyped.. .if you can find an example, I'll apologise.

My point was, racist idiots, who've always been racist idiots, pre and post brexit, and I'm sure in the future will continue to be racist idiots are in the vast majority of cases drawn to the leave camp, and indeed drawn to UKIP.

Or are you saying that I'm wrong in that point?
What proof have you got. Some nasty people in all parties. Just look at what Labour went through recently over anti Semitic comments. Mind you they managed to gloss over that with a well placed honour.
 

Zlatan

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May be a silly question but would your prices come back down should the pound recover to previous levels?. That could happen if LePen was elected. Unlikely I know but after 2016 nothing can be ruled out
That is quite possible according to recent news..

Cant remember what year but there was talk of euro and pound becoming parity and staying there. The experts were wrong and pound recovered, but how did KTM manage through those days? Is it perhaps time to start manufacturing ( dare I say it) British bikes, or is that racist, anti German..???
 
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Zlatan

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I believe it's Merkel that is causing the problems regarding citizens. I don't think I've heard anyone say that is the intention of the government.
Merkel is probably going to be responsible for the break up of eu as we know it. There is a lot of anti Merkel feeling in Germany. I was in Northern Italy a month ago. Speaking with 2 German chaps about Brexit. They were quite indifferent but both said Berlin was now ruined, and not recognisable as City they once knew. ( their words) They commented nobody spoke German, the places they associated with Berlin had all gone and they put blame squarely at Merkel's feet. (Both blokes had Austrian/ Italian/ German heritage) Both agreed they would never be going to Berlin again. They asked if same had happened in London? To be fair I had no idea.
 
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May be a silly question but would your prices come back down should the pound recover to previous levels?. That could happen if LePen was elected. Unlikely I know but after 2016 nothing can be ruled out
yes, of course they would. And you can quote me on that. Our prices are directly tied to the €, on the bikes its on an annual basis, but on the vast range of p&a its on a daily basis.

So yes if the £ recovers prices will go down.
 
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What proof have you got. Some nasty people in all parties. Just look at what Labour went through recently over anti Semitic comments. Mind you they managed to gloss over that with a well placed honour.
Again, you've taken my simple statement and taken it to be more than it is. I'm sure they're are nasty people in other parties I think that's 100% fact.

However it is also true that if you're not tolerant of immigrants, you're more likley to vote Brexit and you're more likely to be pro UKIP.

You just have to look at any public interviews, Question Time, the facebook feeds etc etc etc. There is loads of proof out there.
 

flecc

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both said Berlin was now ruined, and not recognisable as City they once knew. ( their words) They commented nobody spoke German, - - - - - They asked if same had happened in London? To be fair I had no idea.
Basically yes, since only some 46% of Londoners are white British born. But we in London don't think that means London is ruined, it's just evolved and the majority of us like it.

Those Germans strike me as in danger of being racist, certainly intolerant. In a globalised world such change will happen and can easily be accepted by those with open minds.
.
 

Zlatan

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Basically yes, since only some 46% of Londoners are white British born. But we in London don't think that means London is ruined, it's just evolved and the majority of us like it.

Those Germans strike me as in danger of being racist, certainly intolerant. In a globalised world such change will happen and can easily be accepted by those with open minds.
.
I,m not passing judgment either way Flecc.,just repeating their feelings. Merkel has said herself the open door to immigration has perhaps been a mistake.???
 
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gray198

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Again, you've taken my simple statement and taken it to be more than it is. I'm sure they're are nasty people in other parties I think that's 100% fact.

However it is also true that if you're not tolerant of immigrants, you're more likley to vote Brexit and you're more likely to be pro UKIP.

You just have to look at any public interviews, Question Time, the facebook feeds etc etc etc. There is loads of proof out there.
Very many labour voters voted to leave. As did many Conservatives and UKIP supporters. Don't know about libdems but who cares about them. You just cannot generalise on this because it suits you to do so. Yes some people did vote to leave because of immigration. Probably because the last Labour government having decided to change the country without any mandate tried to stifle debate by branding any questioning as racist. Many people voted to leave because they do not want to be ruled by people who they have no power to elect or fire. As for Facebook I wouldn't be inclined to give credence to much of the rubbish that is on there
 
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Very many labour voters voted to leave. As did many Conservatives and UKIP supporters. Don't know about libdems but who cares about them. You just cannot generalise on this because it suits you to do so. Yes some people did vote to leave because of immigration. Probably because the last Labour government having decided to change the country without any mandate tried to stifle debate by branding any questioning as racist. Many people voted to leave because they do not want to be ruled by people who they have no power to elect or fire. As for Facebook I wouldn't be inclined to give credence to much of the rubbish that is on there
again you've missed my point. I totally agree, many many many different types of people voted leave, I am not trying to put all leavers into any box at all.

What I am saying is that people like the members of Britain First will have voted leave, and will have voted UKIP, because they are anti foreigner.

That is not me saying that all people who voted leave or UKIP are anti foreigner.

This statement however does prove my point that "SOME" or in your words many people are fools.

Many people voted to leave because they do not want to be ruled by people who they have no power to elect or fire.
Because the EU is actually more democratic than the UK is, and if anyone doesn't understand how it works, its ignorance and the UK is to blame for a lack of education on the way the EU works, because everyone in the European parliament is elected, just like our one.
 
I believe it's Merkel that is causing the problems regarding citizens. I don't think I've heard anyone say that is the intention of the government.
"I believe" I asked you to give me an example, an actual example of a thing the EU was threatening us with. Our government is the one that triggered all this, so its up to us to say what we're going to do about EU citizens here first.
 

flecc

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I,m not passing judgment either way Flecc.,just repeating their feelings. Merkel has said herself the open door to immigration has perhaps been a mistake.???
No, I didn't think you were, I accepted that you were just reporting the events factually.

Germany and Austria have always had their racists as WW2 showed in a horrific manner, and they reared their heads again following the war in protest against the Turks being brought in. They were to staff their factories due to the shortage of Germans to do the work and have very fully integrated.

There were well over 3 million of those Turks, so the current acceptance of a million refugees shouldn't be a problem. But clearly some Germans don't want to accept any foreigner as the rise of their far right shows.
.
 
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oldgroaner

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At least you are predictable OG.
Yourself and KTM were ( rightly ) appalled at the idiot's rant KTM gave us link to, but you fail to see the similarities in your own posts. No doubt if the individual was questioned he ,d give some justification and attempt to belittle his questioners. All examples of insult on any site should simply not be permitted.
It shows the level you have achieved when you feel I am on a crusade for requesting both sides refrain from insult. You prove with your every post you are incapable of doing so and reinforce your inability to accept others opinions . Just like the racist does in KTM's example. IMHO your attitude is equally dangerous to the idiot's in the link. Both are inflamatory,bigoted and likely to cause offence rather than explain or compromise.
The sad fact is if people do not see the danger in these ,and their own,attitudes we will see riots and violence. Such as yourself will sit back and blame everyone else, when in reality you are equally to blame. Its always someone else causing the issues, time we all looked carefully at what each of us says.
You never learn do you? this thread is for discussion of the Topic "Brexit , at last some facts"
Spare us all your amateur dramatics and self righteous nonsense, who cares about your pet hobby horse?
"All examples of insult on any site should simply not be permitted."
Bearing that is mind perhaps you would remember that the Chap occupying the front of your pantomime donkey act is perhaps the finest insult slinger on the internet (and I mean that as a compliment tillson)

Why not try your luck by prodding him in the behind to stop and tell him off about it instead of leaping to his defence all the time?
But I caution you he is a bigly fan of Trump and may respond appropriately..

At least he knows what he wants (which is more than can be said for you)
And won't bore us all to death with sanctimonious maunderings as you do, or forget whether he voted to leave or not.
And is lot more amusing.
 
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oldgroaner

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Those opinions have always been there. Nothing to do with Brexit. Although those that wish to remain are quite happy to resort to name calling and stereotyping. Is that all the remainers or just a few extremists??
Always been there is true, now augmented by the press and politicians and encouraged to act openly VERY definitely true after the Referendum
 

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