Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Oddcheckers: Truss: 33/50, Mordaunt: 7/2
Sunak must breathe easy now.
His strategy will become clear on Monday at the BBC leaders debate.
No prize for guessing who is the better candidate.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Oddcheckers: Truss: 33/50, Mordaunt: 7/2
Sunak must breathe easy now.
His strategy will become clear on Monday at the BBC leaders debate.
No prize for guessing who is the better candidate.
I don't think anything can be clear while the Tory party members have the final say, or even any say at all. After the serially incompetent May and the appalling Johnson, can they be thought capable of delivering a sensible choice?
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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I don't think anything can be clear while the Tory party members have the final say. After the serially incompetent May and the appalling Johnson, can they be thought capable of delivering a sensible choice?
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May did not win the membership vote, Johnson delivered exactly what tory members wanted and he was a much more convincing candidate compared to Hunt. For their purpose, moral rectitude is not a major factor.
I am pretty sure that whoever wins the PM job is going to stitch up the right wingers.
The UK cannot afford to keep borrowing to fund tax cuts. This year, repayment on interest of public debt goes from £55 billions in 2021 to £83 billions in 2022. What will it be in 2023 and 2024? I think Sunak is going to trap Truss on debt repayment next Monday.
I wonder why the Daily Mail fails to mention that fact.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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May did not win the membership vote, Johnson delivered exactly what tory members wanted and he was a much more convincing candidate compared to Hunt. For their purpose, moral rectitude is not a major factor.
I am pretty sure that whoever wins the PM job is going to stitch up the right wingers.
The UK cannot afford to keep borrowing to fund tax cuts. This year, repayment on interest of public debt goes from £55 billions in 2021 to £83 billions in 2022. What will it be in 2023 and 2024? I think Sunak is going to trap Truss on debt repayment next Monday.
I wonder why the Daily Mail fails to mention that fact.
The MPs who elected May and have let Truss get this far are also Tory Party members, it's always their members responsible.

I agree on stitching up the right wing, there is no alternative other than economic suicide, given the scale of our debt.

The only certainty is that we the electorate are going to suffer for many years to come.
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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The MPs who elected May and have let Truss get this far are also Tory Party members, it's always their members responsible.
Mordaunt is not smarter than Truss.
Sensible tory MPs like Rory Stewart have left some time ago.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Sensible tory MPs like Rory Stewart have left some time ago.
There of course was a sensible choice as Tory Party leader, but they were all too dumb to see it. He still could be since the PM does not have to be an elected MP, but I doubt he'd change from his current academic career at Yale for this particular Tory Party.
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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West West Wales
I still hold to my view that the best outcome would be for the tories to actually break apart into (at least) two parties.

Chances of it happening? Close to nil.

If you could measure disagreement on a twelve-inch/30 cm. ruler, I suspect the distance between the extremes within the tories (considering MPs and members) are greater than those between a number of tories and members of other parties.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I still hold to my view that the best outcome would be for the tories to actually break apart into (at least) two parties.

Chances of it happening? Close to nil.

If you could measure disagreement on a twelve-inch/30 cm. ruler, I suspect the distance between the extremes within the tories (considering MPs and members) are greater than those between a number of tories and members of other parties.
Tory MPs range from being effectively Lib Dem to definitely Fascist, so I agree in that respect.

However Labour MPs have long ranged from effectively Lib Dem to Communist in Marxist /Trotskyite forms, so I'm not sure that they are any less divided.

The solution of course is proportional representation, allowing them to split into four parties, something impossible for them to consider with first past the post.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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With the three very hot days over I'm able to see the exact cost of using the Aircon unit with todays high electricity prices. It was £3.25 including VAT (£1.08 per day) to have comfort in the mid 20s instead of the up to 37 degrees here, well worth it.

I bought the unit during the very hot summer period of 2003 and installed it with a permanent wall vent, but that is normally blanked and the unit stored away. Since then it's only been brought out a small minority of years for the occasional very hot period like the one we've just experienced.

It cost me £110 back then but the same again would cost at least £311 now. Its 7000 BTU capacity falls very slightly short of the Lounge/Diner/Kitchen area that I use it for needs, so a 9000 BTU unit could mean less run time and even a slight current saving.
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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Tory MPs range from being effectively Lib Dem to definitely Fascist, so I agree in that respect.

However Labour MPs have long ranged from effectively Lib Dem to Communist in Marxist /Trotskyite forms, so I'm not sure that they are any less divided.

The solution of course is proportional representation, allowing them to split into four parties, something impossible for them to consider with first past the post.
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It's perhaps as good as it gets, but as Dragi discovered in italy (where the rosatellum means something like 66% of representatives are appointed on PR) there's no guaranteed way to escape our natural tendency to divide and conquer. Worse, even there its been about populist BS (5 star)
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
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It's perhaps as good as it gets, but as Dragi discovered in italy (where the rosatellum means something like 66% of representatives are appointed on PR) there's no guaranteed way to escape our natural tendency to divide and conquer. Worse, even there its been about populist BS (5 star)
Italy is one place where there can never be any political agreement. Every meal I've been to in the homes of Italian wings of my family and others has ended with explosive political argument between the males present. Not involving me, I'm too familiar with this to be still present !
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Sunak appears in at least some photographs to wear jackets with too-short sleeves - redolent of Alexei Sayle.

Truss appears in at least some photographs to wear jackets with slightly too-long sleeves.

Both against the common gender tendencies for men to wear longer sleeves and women to wear shorter sleeves.

What to make of this? I don't know.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
Both against the common gender tendencies for men to wear longer sleeves and women to wear shorter sleeves.

What to make of this? I don't know.
Being no longer able to put clothing down as parliamentary expenses since those scandals, they buy ready to wear instead of using a tailor.
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,451
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Truss on BBC with Nick Robinson: she seems to contradict herself and under pressure, she just shouted her replies at Robinson.

Truss extolls Patrick Minford's economics.
She said Treasury [and Sunak by implication] follows economic orthodoxy and yet, she said that nobody follows the same Treasury's decisions. Orthodoxy means followed by the many.
Sunak is right, Truss is a less formidable opponent.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,262
30,649
Truss on BBC with Nick Robinson: she seems to contradict herself and under pressure, she just shouted her replies at Robinson.

Truss extolls Patrick Minford's economics.
She said Treasury [and Sunak by implication] follows economic orthodoxy and yet, she said that nobody follows the same Treasury's decisions. Orthodoxy means followed by the many.
Sunak is right, Truss is a less formidable opponent.
Truss will become stubborn Thatcher mark 2 if elected, wrecking the economy even more.

Sadly the party members are daft enough to elect her, as ever failing to understand the implications of what she is saying.
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