Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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Ukraine would be trying to join both too, and we'd all be looking forward to an American led future WW3 against China.

While any form of communism exists and the USA has any power, there will never be peace. It isn't Russia we need to isolate to gain peace, it's the USA.
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We can watch WW3 between Russian and China any way
 
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flecc

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We can watch WW3 between Russian and China any way
I don't know what gave you that weird idea, but it's very much at odds with the relationship of those two now and what they plan for the future.

Merger is far more likely in the long term.
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oyster

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I don't know what gave you that weird idea, but it's very much at odds with the relationship of those two now and what they plan for the future.

Merger is far more likely in the long term.
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That seems incredibly far-fetched.

Could you see Putin willing becoming second fiddle to Xi Jinping - or the other way round?

Even if they started negotiating a merger, the mindsets of the hierarchies would not accept an outcome which demoted some of them.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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That seems incredibly far-fetched.

Could you see Putin willing becoming second fiddle to Xi Jinping - or the other way round?

Even if they started negotiating a merger, the mindsets of the hierarchies would not accept an outcome which demoted some of them.
I said long term, Putin is 70!

There's no demotion in merging, it means becoming as one. It's already happening anyway, Russia's eastern population is increasingly Chinese with Russia's full approval. They know it worked historically when Russia took a huge part of Mongolia and that Oriental population became Russian over time.

I've already spelled this out before. The two are a perfect match, Russia has huge resources but has always had a problem with populating its vast land. China has very poor resources for such a large country but a problem of tending to overpopulate. They've both recognised how they solve each others problems so are letting it happen naturally.
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oyster

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I said long term, Putin is 70!

There's no demotion in merging, it means becoming as one. It's already happening anyway, Russia's eastern population is increasingly Chinese with Russia's full approval. They know it worked historically when Russia took a huge part of Mongolia and that Oriental population became Russian over time.

I've already spelled this out before. The two are a perfect match, Russia has huge resources but has always had a problem with populating its vast land. China has very poor resources for such a large country but a problem of tending to overpopulate. They've both recognised how they solve each others problems so are letting it happen naturally.
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You have pointed it out.

OK - the next Putin. Even if a more reasonable person, would still not want second place. At some point, one or other of the countries will see the other as taking away from their country.
 
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flecc

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There is no second place in what they've expressed they want, countries can and sometimes do learn.

Both have seen the futility of the wars that they've been involved in over at least 1000 years and want a completely different approach, but both have a big problem with the USA. Hence the Ukraine war and China's ongoing argument with the USA over the South China sea.

If only the USA would butt out of other countries business and mind their own, instead of insisting on telling everyone else how they should live, we could all have a peaceful and harmonious life together. And we could have had that for the last three decades but for the USA thinking it knew best when in truth it is utterly clueless as their failed society shows.
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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There is no second place in what they've expressed they want, countries can and sometimes do learn.

Both have seen the futility of the wars that they've been involved in over at least 1000 years and want a completely different approach, but both have a big problem with the USA. Hence the Ukraine war and China's ongoing argument with the USA over the South China sea.

If only the USA would butt out of other countries business and mind their own, instead of insisting on telling everyone else how they should live, we could all have a peaceful and harmonious life together. And we could have had that for the last three decades but for the USA thinking it knew best when in truth it is utterly clueless as their failed society shows.
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Indeed. That would explain the European and American slums in china and russia overcrowded with illegal migrants clamouring for asylum and citizenship. To escape the poverty and oppression in the West. You're right, life in the West is utterly intolerable. I mean here I am, sitting on a slime green algae covered boat off poole having to soak up sun on a holiday weekend, utterly unbearable.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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There is no second place in what they've expressed they want, countries can and sometimes do learn.

Both have seen the futility of the wars that they've been involved in over at least 1000 years and want a completely different approach, but both have a big problem with the USA. Hence the Ukraine war and China's ongoing argument with the USA over the South China sea.

If only the USA would butt out of other countries business and mind their own, instead of insisting on telling everyone else how they should live, we could all have a peaceful and harmonious life together. And we could have had that for the last three decades but for the USA thinking it knew best when in truth it is utterly clueless as their failed society shows.
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Perhaps you could extend that advice to Russia and China too?
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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I don't know what gave you that weird idea, but it's very much at odds with the relationship of those two now and what they plan for the future.

Merger is far more likely in the long term.
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Not a chance in a million China inevitably will annexe Russia for resources, they have always regarded foreigners as barbarians.
And they are patiently waiting...it will be a pushover.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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It's a local election so of course I'll be voting Tory to rescue the borough from a disastrous Labour Council with a shocking record.

Set up their own building company called Brick by Brick which made a mess of all the projects it as engaged in, then went bankrupt.

Massive borrowing by the council, pushing us ever further into debt.

Taking on excessive numbers of senior management and then having to make them redundant, sometimes within one year.

Two section 114 notices of bankruptcy from the Council itself and having to be bailed out by the government.

Nationally and at GLC level I've voted Labour for years, but in most of the London boroughs the Tories and Liberals have vastly superior records of running councils economically and effectively.
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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It's a local election so of course I'll be voting Tory to rescue the borough from a disastrous Labour Council with a shocking record.

Set up their own building company called Brick by Brick which made a mess of all the projects it as engaged in, then went bankrupt.

Massive borrowing by the council, pushing us ever further into debt.

Taking on excessive numbers of senior management and then having to make them redundant, sometimes within one year.

Two section 114 notices of bankruptcy from the Council itself and having to be bailed out by the government.

Nationally and at GLC level I've voted Labour for years, but in most of the London boroughs the Tories and Liberals have vastly superior records of running councils economically and effectively.
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Mussolini got the Italian trains to run on time, but I wouldn't have voted for him
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Mussolini got the Italian trains to run on time, but I wouldn't have voted for him
How can you miss the point so comprehensively? *

Clearly I vote for the lesser by far of the two evils.

A council with a proven record that doesn't actually harm, rather than one that has totally failed at huge ongoing cost to everyone in the borough and even a cost to the whole country, including you.

* It's a rhetorical question, I know how. You are so bigotted against anything Tory that you are unable to understand that Tory principles, when strictly limited in powers as in a local authority and thus controlled, can be the better.

For example, the council of the London Borough of Wandsworth has long been recognised as being one of the most efficient in the country with consistently low council tax yet satisfying their residents better than most. The majority of their 20 wards are working class, yet they have voted in a Tory council continuously ever since 1978. But at Greater London Council level they have only a Labour councillor representing Wandsworth, in both cases "horses for courses", the wise person's choice.

Meanwhile my own London borough's Labour Council, in addition to the evils I mentioned, have also shut down the meals on wheels service, leaving hundreds of the elderly stranded and isolated.

But Wandsworth not only have their meals on wheels service, they also run an "Extra Help" scheme for those in need:

Extra Help Wandsworth can help with:
  • Companionship
  • Escort to appointments or social activities & events
  • Cleaning and tidying
  • Laundry and ironing
  • Shopping errands
  • Meal preparation
  • Parent's help
  • Gardening and DIY
  • Dog walking
Who would you vote for, our Croydon bankrupt, expensive and useless Labour Council or Wandsworth's low cost, high performing Tory one?
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Just realised what I have had almost going round my head for several weeks:

There she stands among the daffodils she sells,
Dressed in blue and yellow,
Wonder why I felt so much in love with her,
Daisy Lady,
I wonder maybe,
If some lazy day will stray away with me,
Oh, will drive me, crazy...

 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
How can you miss the point so comprehensively? *

Clearly I vote for the lesser by far of the two evils.

A council with a proven record that doesn't actually harm, rather than one that has totally failed at huge ongoing cost to everyone in the borough and even a cost to the whole country, including you.

* It's a rhetorical question, I know how. You are so bigotted against anything Tory that you are unable to understand that Tory principles, when strictly limited in powers as in a local authority and thus controlled, can be the better.

For example, the council of the London Borough of Wandsworth has long been recognised as being one of the most efficient in the country with consistently low council tax yet satisfying their residents better than most. The majority of their 20 wards are working class, yet they have voted in a Tory council continuously ever since 1978. But at Greater London Council level they have only a Labour councillor representing Wandsworth, in both cases "horses for courses", the wise person's choice.

Meanwhile my own London borough's Labour Council, in addition to the evils I mentioned, have also shut down the meals on wheels service, leaving hundreds of the elderly stranded and isolated.

But Wandsworth not only have their meals on wheels service, they also run an "Extra Help" scheme for those in need:

Extra Help Wandsworth can help with:
  • Companionship
  • Escort to appointments or social activities & events
  • Cleaning and tidying
  • Laundry and ironing
  • Shopping errands
  • Meal preparation
  • Parent's help
  • Gardening and DIY
  • Dog walking
Who would you vote for, our Croydon bankrupt, expensive and useless Labour Council or Wandsworth's low cost, high performing Tory one?
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Frankly I wish you the best of luck, put not your faith in fascists.
 

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