Brexit, for once some facts.

Mrs Honeyman

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Dec 29, 2021
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lots of things are essential to life, but they are not free, eg food, water, electricity.
Broadband is free in schools, libraries, airports trains etc, also available if you have mobile phone signal. Some people live in isolated areas where they don't have mobile phone signal, they will have to subscribe to more expensive satellite broadband.
Why do you think that government MUST provide free broadband?
Some things oil the wheels of society and the economy and they shouldn't necessarily exist to make a profit. They certainly shouldn't be in the hands of middle-men who add no value and just skim a percentage. Energy and now internet access fall into this category, closely followed by public transport.
 

Mrs Honeyman

Pedelecer
Dec 29, 2021
101
255
A short while ago, someone posted a link to a web page which gave a visual representation of where our electricity is being sourced from. I can see a coal fired power station in the distance from my house. I noticed they lit it yesterday evening and it now seems to be chugging away on the horizon. I was quite excited to see that the "Coal" dial on the web-page has moved from zero to 1.72 GW today. It's the first time I've seen it move off zero since the link was published!

Looking at the other dials, there doesn't seem to be much slack in the generating capacity. Once the wind stops blowing we seem to be thrashing every other plant to death and sucking juice from the continent. The coal power station I can see on the horizon is earmarked for closure in a couple of years. I wonder what will happen then?

I think it spews out about 10 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year. Nice.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,130
30,556
lots of things are essential to life, but they are not free, eg food, water, electricity.
Broadband is free in schools, libraries, airports trains etc, also available if you have mobile phone signal. Some people live in isolated areas where they don't have mobile phone signal, they will have to subscribe to more expensive satellite broadband.
Why do you think that government MUST provide free broadband?
I didn't say it had to be free, quote:

"Just as centuries ago we had politicians with the sense to see that the postal service needed to be cheaply universally available to all"

But it has to be cheap enough for everybody to access, and ideally that means free for very many.

London's buses are a good example, free up to 16 years or 18 if in full time education, then free from 60 years. And if the authorities are really serious about getting people out of cars, make them free for everyone in between.

Ken Livingstone showed how that principle could work, with motorists through the congestion charge paying into public transport to enable today's rock bottom £1.55 bus fare, about a third of everywhere else in the country. It's no accident that London now has the lowest car ownership in the country and its young showing less interest in car ownership than anywhere else.

It's about the public good, and having everybody online at any time is beneficial and efficient for the whole of the country through it's governance and community benefits.

There's far more to vision than having eyes that work.
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
A short while ago, someone posted a link to a web page which gave a visual representation of where our electricity is being sourced from. I can see a coal fired power station in the distance from my house. I noticed they lit it yesterday evening and it now seems to be chugging away on the horizon. I was quite excited to see that the "Coal" dial on the web-page has moved from zero to 1.72 GW today. It's the first time I've seen it move off zero since the link was published!

Looking at the other dials, there doesn't seem to be much slack in the generating capacity. Once the wind stops blowing we seem to be thrashing every other plant to death and sucking juice from the continent. The coal power station I can see on the horizon is earmarked for closure in a couple of years. I wonder what will happen then?

I think it spews out about 10 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year. Nice.
I think 'twas me:


One nuclear has closed - hence cannot achieve the 6.8 or so it had been at for some time.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Some things oil the wheels of society and the economy and they shouldn't necessarily exist to make a profit. They certainly shouldn't be in the hands of middle-men who add no value and just skim a percentage. Energy and now internet access fall into this category, closely followed by public transport.
I always found the commercial approach to internet somewhat bizarre.

Where I used to live, we had a choice of NTL (now Virgin) or BT. But loads of places couldn't get either. And that pattern occurs again and again.

You might have thought it would make more sense for someone to attempt to ensure everyone has one product available before doubling up.

And there have been numerous places where simple things like a directional wifi on a modest pole would permit relatively remote locations to be reached for very little cost.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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The Met are under more pressure...

Before Christmas, we wrote to the Metropolitan Police asking them to explain or reverse their refusal to investigate the unlawful parties alleged to have taken place at No 10 Downing Street in December 2020.

We’ve now received the Met’s response, which raises more questions than it answers, and strongly suggests their refusal to investigate the alleged No 10 parties was unlawful. And now the Met’s approach is under the spotlight again following yesterday’s revelations of yet another party, this time organised by a top No 10 aide at Downing Street in May 2020. Each new revelation makes the Met’s policy of not investigating these breaches more damaging.

In short, the Met says it concluded that further investigatory work would be required before they could decide whether to bring charges, but rather than attempting to do this, they just closed the case.

Their attempts to justify that decision really don’t make sense. First they say they relied on the Government’s assurances that no rules had been broken. Then they say there would have been no point in interviewing No 10 staff about the parties because they would have refused to answer questions that exposed them to a risk of prosecution. In what other crime would police decline to investigate because the suspected offender assured them no rules had been broken? And those justifications can’t both be true; if no rules were broken, there’s no risk of self-incrimination. We’re intent to get to the bottom of it.

It is not good enough for the Met to delegate their investigative duties to the press. We don’t believe they would make such concessions for anyone else accused of breaking the law.

They seem to be operating a two-tier system, with one rule for those in power and one rule for everyone else. And we think that sets a dangerous precedent with serious implications for public trust.

We’re issuing formal legal proceedings to force the Met to revisit their decision. Those in power broke the rules – repeatedly. They should face the same consequences as everyone else.
 

Mrs Honeyman

Pedelecer
Dec 29, 2021
101
255
The Met are under more pressure...

Before Christmas, we wrote to the Metropolitan Police asking them to explain or reverse their refusal to investigate the unlawful parties alleged to have taken place at No 10 Downing Street in December 2020.

We’ve now received the Met’s response, which raises more questions than it answers, and strongly suggests their refusal to investigate the alleged No 10 parties was unlawful. And now the Met’s approach is under the spotlight again following yesterday’s revelations of yet another party, this time organised by a top No 10 aide at Downing Street in May 2020. Each new revelation makes the Met’s policy of not investigating these breaches more damaging.

In short, the Met says it concluded that further investigatory work would be required before they could decide whether to bring charges, but rather than attempting to do this, they just closed the case.

Their attempts to justify that decision really don’t make sense. First they say they relied on the Government’s assurances that no rules had been broken. Then they say there would have been no point in interviewing No 10 staff about the parties because they would have refused to answer questions that exposed them to a risk of prosecution. In what other crime would police decline to investigate because the suspected offender assured them no rules had been broken? And those justifications can’t both be true; if no rules were broken, there’s no risk of self-incrimination. We’re intent to get to the bottom of it.

It is not good enough for the Met to delegate their investigative duties to the press. We don’t believe they would make such concessions for anyone else accused of breaking the law.

They seem to be operating a two-tier system, with one rule for those in power and one rule for everyone else. And we think that sets a dangerous precedent with serious implications for public trust.

We’re issuing formal legal proceedings to force the Met to revisit their decision. Those in power broke the rules – repeatedly. They should face the same consequences as everyone else.
It is perfectly clear to me. Dame Dick is in the government's pocket. They've slipped her a Jimmy Saville and the job's a good-un.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Essentials shouldn't have to depend on commercial interests, and broadband is now an essential for full participation in our modern life.

Jeremy Corbyn had the wisdom to understand that.

And it's not just broadband, the smartphone is close to having the same status now. Just as centuries ago we had politicians with the sense to see that the postal service needed to be cheaply universally available to all, so we need the same realisation for the post's modern replacements.

As with the post, only the state can achieve an equal service for all.
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Note this is not intended as an endorsement of JC or any other politician, but to agree with the sentiment of full access for continuing participation in a democracy
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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But it has to be cheap enough for everybody to access, and ideally that means free for very many.
broadband is cheap. You can get 15GB download a month with unlimited calls for £8 a month with Vodafone. Honestly, cost is not exactly a debate here.
offering free broadband to entice voters is not a mark of a great thinker.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
broadband is cheap. You can get 15GB download a month with unlimited calls for £8 a month with Vodafone. Honestly, cost is not exactly a debate here.
offering free broadband to entice voters is not a mark of a great thinker.
There is much of this county where Vodafone is unavailable.

Partner moved from them when we moved down here because signal was so poor, so often.

And many locations have very poor broadband over telephone wire.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
20,214
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Southend on Sea
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It is the mark of a caring person.
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in that case, JC should have made that his policy much earlier, not a couple of days before the election.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,214
16,818
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
There is much of this county where Vodafone is unavailable.

Partner moved from them when we moved down here because signal was so poor, so often.

And many locations have very poor broadband over telephone wire.
there were a few TV documentaries exploring the economics of connecting remote rural properties to the internet. They need to link enough properties (in the hundreds) into a hub and connect that hub to the net. In the early days of the internet, I connected some customers to satellite broadbands with a dish. Now we have Elon Musk's starlink $99/month.
The problem is no different to provisioning other stuff: electricity, gaz, water, sewage, post office, bank, cash machines, buses etc
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Now we have Elon Musk's starlink $99/month.
That is quite a cost. Plus perhaps £500 for the kit.

And heated sufficiently to attract cats. Who pays for that electricity?

There are quite a number of places where near-neighbours have good connections but they themselves have appalling speeds. (As was the case for us until fibre to the premises was installed.

Many times, a tiny decision can mean some properties were bypassed for decent broadband. Then they were offered it at a huge price. Simply a matter of luck which way the initial decision had gone.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,130
30,556
in that case, JC should have made that his policy much earlier, not a couple of days before the election.
Absolutely not. As I made clear in an earlier post the Tories have a habit of stealing Labour policies the moment they are announced, as much as a spoiler as anything else. Corbyn was a victim of that, so a last minute announcement made sense.

I think you should be more aware of how hard many peoples lives are, such things as having no money for a meter when it's freezing cold, not even money for food so having to rely on a food bank. For such people a broadband contract is often out of the question as a luxury since they often don't even have a regular income, or even a permanent home.

For them its going to get a whole lot worse over the coming months, impossibly so when next winter arrives if something drastic isn't done about fuel costs.
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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there were a few TV documentaries exploring the economics of connecting remote rural properties to the internet. They need to link enough properties (in the hundreds) into a hub and connect that hub to the net. In the early days of the internet, I connected some customers to satellite broadbands with a dish. Now we have Elon Musk's starlink $99/month.
The problem is no different to provisioning other stuff: electricity, gaz, water, sewage, post office, bank, cash machines, buses etc
Woosh... . You are rapidly moving goalposts here. The rich always had options , the poor less so. The rich could courier parcels and letters anywhere any place any time ... It was the innovation of the Penny Black, so that a letter sent between two adjacent streets in London subsidised the letter going from Barra to Aberdeen. That I believe is what fleec was referring to. Now the provision of quality Broadband replaces Banks, Post Office and Cash machines ..also Libraries and maybe Surgery consulting, and the Employment Exchange, the Probation Service...
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,751
6,445
if you make a benefits claim for say universal credit you are told to do it online buy default so when they sanction you and you cant afford to put credit on your phone to manage your uc account online and if they change the claimant commitment online in 7 days and dont accept it they shut down the hole claim.

they set you up to fail from day one. but you can make a uc claim over the phone as you do have a choice just the dwp dont want ppl to know this lol.
 
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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Just got my popcorn in for tomorrows PM questions, hopefully KS will be back from isolation to put Boris through the wringer. Looking forward to see what lies BJ will spin to try and get out of another fine mess he has got himself into.
It is developing proper party splitting legs
 
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