Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Still the liars persist:

Yesterday Boris Johnson repeated the lie that 90% of Covid patients in ICUs are unvaccinated.

Today on the news I've listened to an NHS representative saying the 60% of Covid patients in hospitals are unvaccinated, also a lie.

Here is the truth:

"New data from the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) has revealed that 42.9 per cent of confirmed Omicron patients requiring hospital treatment in Yorkshire, are unvaccinated - the highest proportion of any region in England. "

If that's the highest in England, it means some 60% of all confirmed Omicron hospital treatment cases in England are VACCINATED.

The pressures on the unvaccinated to get vaccinated are unjustified since the only certain benefit of vaccination is entirely personal.
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oyster

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There could well be an excess of precaution in the EU ban. But artists using substances with significant health risk could already be regarded as criminals.

I had thought the inks (at least) nowadays had been extensively tested and deemed pretty safe. Certainly compared with those in use many years ago.

But a divide between EU and UK on a health issue like this doesn't look good.

UK to investigate tattoo ink health risks after EU ban
Ban has caused tattoo industry crisis across bloc with trade associations warning it will ‘criminalise’ artists
 

guerney

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There could well be an excess of precaution in the EU ban. But artists using substances with significant health risk could already be regarded as criminals.

I had thought the inks (at least) nowadays had been extensively tested and deemed pretty safe. Certainly compared with those in use many years ago.

But a divide between EU and UK on a health issue like this doesn't look good.

UK to investigate tattoo ink health risks after EU ban
Ban has caused tattoo industry crisis across bloc with trade associations warning it will ‘criminalise’ artists
There's gotta be an easier way to become permanently black
 

Danidl

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Still the liars persist:

Yesterday Boris Johnson repeated the lie that 90% of Covid patients in ICUs are unvaccinated.

Today on the news I've listened to an NHS representative saying the 60% of Covid patients in hospitals are unvaccinated, also a lie.

Here is the truth:

"New data from the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) has revealed that 42.9 per cent of confirmed Omicron patients requiring hospital treatment in Yorkshire, are unvaccinated - the highest proportion of any region in England. "

If that's the highest in England, it means some 60% of all confirmed Omicron hospital treatment cases in England are VACCINATED.

The pressures on the unvaccinated to get vaccinated are unjustified since the only certain benefit of vaccination is entirely personal.
.
This might seem nitpicking , but there is a difference between ICUs and Hospital Beds. Now if the unvaccinated were twice or three times more likely to need ICU , than the vaxxed, both statements are consistent. Incidentally we are currently experimenting with Covid isolation within my house. Our son did have a very clear LFT positive 2 days ago, but not 3 days ago, when he started feeling bad. He had the 2 jab treatment and was unable to get the third one, to date. Both I am my wife have had the 3 jabs, and our daughter was only able to get her third jab yesterday.
 

oyster

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37 billion, then give up a significant part of it....

UKHSA has confirmed that the requirement for asymptomatic people testing positive on lateral flow to do confirmatory PCR will be suspended - from Jan 11 in England - devolved administrations possibly sooner.


Will we ever again be able to identify variants in a sensibly short time?
 
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guerney

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they know you can't absorb this glutathione by eating, so the whole article is to entice you to have it injected it into your veins for a price.
My ruby murry and raw garlic Covid cure, was bang on the money after all ;)
 

guerney

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This might seem nitpicking , but there is a difference between ICUs and Hospital Beds. Now if the unvaccinated were twice or three times more likely to need ICU , than the vaxxed, both statements are consistent. Incidentally we are currently experimenting with Covid isolation within my house. Our son did have a very clear LFT positive 2 days ago, but not 3 days ago, when he started feeling bad. He had the 2 jab treatment and was unable to get the third one, to date. Both I am my wife have had the 3 jabs, and our daughter was only able to get her third jab yesterday.
At least yours isn't a house in the USA, with forced air heating between rooms... that'd be even more worrying. Are you tempted to make a clear PVC bubble of his isolation area, and give him some cans and a camping gas stove? At one point last year, I was on the verge of getting a cheap caravan for that purpose.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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This might seem nitpicking
It is nitpicking. The UKHSA referred to hospital treatment and ICUS are a part of that.

It is blindingly obvious that the politicians and spokespersons are being wilfully misleading, especially in the oft quoted 90% being unvaccinated without a verifiable single statistic in support. It is incompatible with the UKHSA data.

The motive is equally blindingly obvious, need I really spell it out again? They need to portray the vaccines as being far more effective that they really are for them and their vaccines policy to be accepted as the saviours of the nation.

Of course the large numbers of unvaccinated not suffering Covid problems are a huge inconvenience that needs to be minimised by bullying them into vaccination.
.
 

Woosh

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Of course the large numbers of unvaccinated not suffering Covid problems are a huge inconvenience that needs to be minimised by bullying them into vaccination.
agreed.
 
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flecc

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Incidentally we are currently experimenting with Covid isolation within my house.
I'm lucky in this respect, living alone with a nature reserve alongside and the Surrey border close within sight, followed by country all the way to the channel. It's a very unusual clean air circumstance for a Londoner.

Our son did have a very clear LFT positive 2 days ago, but not 3 days ago, when he started feeling bad. He had the 2 jab treatment and was unable to get the third one, to date. Both I am my wife have had the 3 jabs, and our daughter was only able to get her third jab yesterday.
I was out Monday morning for some shopping and have caught something that made me wonder for a while, especially since it triggered a recurrence of tachycardia with repeated episodes after a year of being free from them. False alarm though, it's just a rather severe cold. No high temperature, persistent cough or loss of taste, so lacking Covid qualifications. The tachycardia triggered by using xylometazoline decongestant to clear the blocked nose just prior to the streaming phase now being suffered. I really should avoid using it.
.
 

Woosh

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Omicron seems to peak at 200k a day.
 

Danidl

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At least yours isn't a house in the USA, with forced air heating between rooms... that'd be even more worrying. Are you tempted to make a clear PVC bubble of his isolation area, and give him some cans and a camping gas stove? At one point last year, I was on the verge of getting a cheap caravan for that purpose.
The house is sufficiently large and his own bedroom has its own shower etc . He has his meals at a different table . But conventional wisdom is that with Delta , every one in the house gets it , and double that for Omicron... But so far so good... Today would have been the earliest possible date..
 

flecc

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Omicron seems to peak at 200k a day.
Which is precisely the infection level you forecast by Christmas, about three months ago, long before omicron arrived.

Perhaps we should ask you what it will be in three months time. ;)
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oyster

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Sounds like a barely workable system. Which won't be a surprise...

Hauliers report problems with post-Brexit customs system but HMRC insists it is 'online and working as planned'
Originally launched as 'minimum viable product', GVMS has the necessary upgrades, UK taxman says


 
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Danidl

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It is nitpicking. The UKHSA referred to hospital treatment and ICUS are a part of that.

It is blindingly obvious that the politicians and spokespersons are being wilfully misleading, especially in the oft quoted 90% being unvaccinated without a verifiable single statistic in support. It is incompatible with the UKHSA data.

The motive is equally blindingly obvious, need I really spell it out again? They need to portray the vaccines as being far more effective that they really are for them and their vaccines policy to be accepted as the saviours of the nation.

Of course the large numbers of unvaccinated not suffering Covid problems are a huge inconvenience that needs to be minimised by bullying them into vaccination.
.
The situation is a lot more nuanced than your analysis might suggest. All figures quoted refer to England
Taking your obvious ratio of 36% unvaxxed and 64% vaxxed for Covid as hospital admissions in the current period , that doesn't imply that they are being admitted for Covid related illnesses,.. They can be admitted via A&E for any reason including strokes, broken legs , child birth , but it does mean that they were positive for Covid ,and Covid Nursing precautions had to be adopted. That number is broadly consistent with the vaccinated ratio...but with the unvaxxed ratio slightly over represented .
But it is what happens after that where the discrepancy can arise ....
Data refers to early December...
The total number of hospital beds is about 125K. The number of those occupied by Covid positive patients is 6K , or 4%.
The total number of Mechanical Ventilation Beds .ie ICU or extreme Care units 3715 . The number of those occupied by Covid Positive patients is 774 or 20% of all those critical care beds.

"Anecdotal data from Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair of the Joint Committee for Vaccination and Immunisation, also suggests that a majority of Covid patients currently in intensive care are not vaccinated.

In an article in the Guardian on 23 November, he wrote. "This ongoing horror [of severe Covid], which is taking place in ICUs across Britain, is now largely restricted to unvaccinated people."

Full Fact asked Professor Pollard if there was a source for this claim. He replied by agreeing that the data was not yet available from ICNARC, but said that the majority of ICU admissions were unvaccinated.

He added: “Fortunately, it is easy to verify by discussing with hospitals in the UK, which we did before writing the article to check our own observations that ICUs are full of the unvaccinated. We called around infectious disease specialists who work with the ICUs, but ICU teams have also been writing about this issue.”

He said that data from intensive care units was a better way to assess the effect of the Covid vaccines “as they have a much clearer definition of severe covid that isn’t so confounded by the way general hospital admission data are collected.”

Did they mean ECMO?
A possible source for the claim made by Ms Kelly and her guests is an article that appeared in the Sunday Times on 5 December (and online the day before). It reported that “more than 90 per cent of Covid sufferers requiring the most specialist care are unvaccinated”.

Later, the article explained this in more detail, saying: “Between July and November, NHS England said that 150 [Covid] patients were referred for extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, or Ecmo, where blood is cycled through an artificial lung machine before returning it to the body. Of these patients, only 6 per cent had been fully vaccinated.”

Full Fact has contacted the NHS and the Times to verify these figures, but the number of patients receiving ECMO treatment make up only a small minority of the thousands in hospital or in intensive care with Covid."
 

Danidl

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I'm lucky in this respect, living alone with a nature reserve alongside and the Surrey border close within sight, followed by country all the way to the channel. It's a very unusual clean air circumstance for a Londoner.



I was out Monday morning for some shopping and have caught something that made me wonder for a while, especially since it triggered a recurrence of tachycardia with repeated episodes after a year of being free from them. False alarm though, it's just a rather severe cold. No high temperature, persistent cough or loss of taste, so lacking Covid qualifications. The tachycardia triggered by using xylometazoline decongestant to clear the blocked nose just prior to the streaming phase now being suffered. I really should avoid using it.
.
Tachycardia.. can be very distressing
 
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guerney

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The house is sufficiently large and his own bedroom has its own shower etc . He has his meals at a different table . But conventional wisdom is that with Delta , every one in the house gets it , and double that for Omicron... But so far so good... Today would have been the earliest possible date..
Have all of your household had Delta? I also considered putting the (grown up) kids up in a AirBnB, for the period they were infectious, but it's hard to know precisely when that is. They've moved out again since.
 

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