Brexit, for once some facts.

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,241
3,192
I mostly use induction! Which is pretty fast anyway but cannot use glass/ceramic pans.
I'm a big fan of the halogens - that's what's powering my Kefir not-so-flatbreads. I'd need to add iron filings in the recipe to get them puffing up like that using an induction cooker, or hold them over an unfeasibly hot, very thick slab of iron or steel. You could always get one of these if you wanted to use glass:


Replacing a hob is pretty easy - just make sure you don't use silicone sealant to stick the damn thing to the counter - it'll crack! Common error... the glass needs to expand and contract freely.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I'm a big fan of the halogens - that's what's powering my Kefir not-so-flatbreads. I'd need to add iron filings in the recipe to get them puffing up like that using an induction cooker, or hold them over an unfeasibly hot, very thick slab of iron or steel. You could always get one of these if you wanted to use glass:


Replacing a hob is pretty easy - just make sure you don't use silicone sealant to stick the damn thing to the counter - it'll crack! Common error... the glass needs to expand and contract freely.
I'd never choose anything other than induction now!

Cool handles. No burning of food on the hob. Even heating of the pan base. Fast start - indeed, pans starts heating immediately. Efficient - uses less electricity than any other type of hob.

But changing a hob isn't always quite as simple as you suggest. Some need higher current circuits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: guerney

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,241
3,192
I'd never choose anything other than induction now!

Cool handles. No burning of food on the hob. Even heating of the pan base. Fast start - indeed, pans starts heating immediately. Efficient - uses less electricity than any other type of hob.

But changing a hob isn't always quite as simple as you suggest. Some need higher current circuits.
Mine is 6kw/25A, which most modern cooker points are capable of. You'd have to check what output you have available. Connect a positive, negative, ground wire and it just works. I might install a gas hob next to mine. For some reason my kitchen is larger than one of the bedrooms, I keep thinking about trying to fill it using a couple of chest freezers. Even then there's enough room for a dining table and chairs, and a big larder store. It's totally nuts. Ideally I'd swap function with the smaller bedroom, but that's far beyond my pay grade. :eek:
 
Last edited:

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,241
3,192
I'd never choose anything other than induction now!

Cool handles. No burning of food on the hob. Even heating of the pan base. Fast start - indeed, pans starts heating immediately. Efficient - uses less electricity than any other type of hob.

But changing a hob isn't always quite as simple as you suggest. Some need higher current circuits.
Do induction hobs magnetise iron in food? I've often wondered if, and what effect it might have, if any. I suppose if your steel pans became more magnetic over time, that'd be an indication.
 
Last edited:

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Do induction hobs magnetise iron in food? I've often wondered if, and what effect it might have, if any. I suppose if your steel pans became more magnetic over time, that'd be an indication.
New thread started:

 
  • Like
Reactions: guerney

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Mine is 6kw/25A, which most modern cooker points are capable of. You'd have to check what output you have available. Connect a positive, negative, ground wire and it just works. I might install a gas hob next to mine. For some reason my kitchen is larger than one of the bedrooms, I keep thinking about trying to fill it using a couple of chest freezers. Even then there's enough room for a dining table and chairs, and a big larder store. It's totally nuts. Ideally I'd swap function with the smaller bedroom, but that's far beyond my pay grade. :eek:
Live, neutral , and earth .. I suspect. Not positive and negative.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,241
3,192
Live, neutral , and earth .. I suspect. Not positive and negative.
AC: You are of course correct. Just testing ;) It's been a long night and I really should knock off.
 
Last edited:

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,241
3,192
Yes - but from frying?

You can buy a Lucky Fish made of cast iron - intended to be put in the pan when cooking. There have been questions over purity of the iron and amount that becomes available - but possibly better than nothing.
You'd best season with as many layers as possible, I can't imagine that there would be much iron gained through frying on a very well seasoned cast iron pan.

Is your oven induction too? If not, you could use terracotta, ceramic, glass. Or roast veg in their skins, within dutch ovens, or have spit roasts outside over an open fire, or get a donner kebab rotisserie for the kitchen; use it to grill skewered veg. Or get a gas or halogen hob.
 

Nev

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2018
1,507
2,520
North Wales
Live, neutral , and earth .. I suspect. Not positive and negative.
In the UK it's designated as Line, neutral and earth, the IEE changed the definition many years ago, as they regarded the neutral as a live conductor because it carries current under normal operating conditions. I don't know if this is the same in EU countries or if they still use the older definition.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
For me, this is Saturday night, not Sunday morning lol. I'll crash in a bit, just trying to get a bit of work done that I should have finished earlier today. Stress is a killer, hope you found some sort of solution to reduce it. I hear Tai Chi is quite good in that regard - I know some Tai Chi fans who are always raving about it (while gesticulating slowly). Looks too tricky to learn, but only if you want to do it properly, I'd imagine. I eat Chinese takeaways very slowly, if that counts.
OK, lets make a wet weird warm somewhat dank British winter worse by telling me you were lounging a Thai beach somewhere? I think the problem with us first world citizens is that we can become narcissistic, imagine our bodies should cope with whatever lifestyle we choose. I learned that the hard way and offloaded some work demands
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
Do induction hobs magnetise iron in food? I've often wondered if, and what effect it might have, if any. I suppose if your steel pans became more magnetic over time, that'd be an indication.
One could, like Robins, be able to detect magnetic North?
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
I, ve just signed the Change.org petition against Blair getting his knighthood. Think he'll get it irrespective of how many sign but it does send a message..(over 200k now signed)
And, I, ve had guessed induction hobs on iron pans would tend to demagnetise??? Both the heating and continual reversal of magnetic field will try and destroy magnets??? I, d guess..
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
I, ve just signed the Change.org petition against Blair getting his knighthood. Think he'll get it irrespective of how many sign but it does send a message..(over 200k now signed)
And, I, ve had guessed induction hobs on iron pans would tend to demagnetise??? Both the heating and continual reversal of magnetic field will try and destroy magnets??? I, d guess..
No comment about Blair.. but about the iron or steel pans and induction heating causing magnetism in the pan. The induction magnetic field is in the order of 30KHz ..so is alternating at this rate. It needs a thick ferromagnetic material to induce sufficient eddy currents . Since the field reverses so rapidly there is no residual effect ... Very similar to those degaussing tools we used back in the day of magnetic tape recorders and shadow masked Colour CRT tubes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zlatan

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
I'd never choose anything other than induction now!

Cool handles. No burning of food on the hob. Even heating of the pan base. Fast start - indeed, pans starts heating immediately. Efficient - uses less electricity than any other type of hob.

But changing a hob isn't always quite as simple as you suggest. Some need higher current circuits.
.. actually the Induction plate is less efficient than a radiant electric plate ..provided it has a suitable sized Pan . Whereas the size is irrelevant with induction . And of course my gas hob only uses a fraction of a watt to energise the ignitor
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zlatan

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
.. actually the Induction plate is less efficient than a radiant electric plate ..provided it has a suitable sized Pan . Whereas the size is irrelevant with induction . And of course my gas hob only uses a fraction of a watt to energise the ignitor
I have started a new post in order to divert all this food discussion from continuing on this thread.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Woosh and flecc

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I hate the Mail but sometimes it is a messenger:

Boris Johnson enters the New Year 16 points behind Labour in Red Wall seats he needs to retain to win the next election, bombshell poll reveals
  • Deltapoll survey puts Labour on 49 per cent and Conservatives on 33 per cent
  • The poll also puts Sir Keir Starmer's party ahead in national voting intention
  • If results were repeated nationally, could lead to loss of more than 100 seats
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Could someone, somewhere be trying to undermine Truss?

Liz Truss asked for public money to cover £3,000 lunch
Reports say Truss demanded booking at ‘obviously incredibly expensive’ club owned by Tory donor

Surely not!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,128
30,555
You will have seen all my posts about London's progressively far lower death rates from Covid, but the scale of the difference is such now that it's time to bring all the information together. First, the factors that might influence a London difference.

London does have one advantage, a smaller number of the elderly but this not large enough to give the perceived advantage even from a neutral position. However London's position is far from equal in other respects since we have some huge disadvantages. These are primarily:

First in the UK to be infected with Covid from 29th January 2020 meaning level for level of infections, up to two months longer with Covid.

That very early start meant up to two months more without PPE and social distancing regulations etc than most of the UK.

By far the highest population density of any UK area, the infamous overcrowding in much of our public transport, the most overcrowded homes and some of the worst housing standards in the country, all making a mockery of social distancing.

We have by far the highest proportion of black people at 13.3%, the next nearest in the UK being the West Midlands with 3.3%. As shown by last year's research, they have four times the vulnerability to Covid of the white population. We also have very large populations of the other higher Covid risk ethnic groups having 2.5 to 1.5 times risk. Since barely over 40% of our population are White British with one times risk factor, this all adds up to a huge disadvantage.

Finally our air pollution levels which have resulted in many EU fines and threats during our membership and which are reckoned to account for a mean 3800 additional deaths per year. That's equal to 21% of our annual Covid deaths.

We might reasonably assume from these that London's Covid deaths would be much higher than the rest of the country, but in fact they are much lower, so shockingly so that explanation is demanded. In the following I haven't deducted the London population from the UK one, giving the UK a very slight advantage from the inclusion of London's lower deaths performance in the totals.

Taking the generally accepted population figure for London, (9.4 million) and the UK (67.2 millions), together with all Covid deaths, both within the 28 days measure and mentions on death certificates, London (18,011), the UK (172,657), London has 25.6% less deaths pro rata than the UK.

However, to ensure no inadvertent bias, I've recalculated using the population figures most disadvantageous to London and most advantageous to the UK. These are London down from 9.4 to 9 million, the UK up from 67.2 to 68.4 million. That reduces the London advantage from 25.6 to 20.7% less deaths pro rata, still shocking.

It means between 35,000 and 44,000 in the UK at large who have died from Covid would not have done if they'd had London's benefit. That is what is so shocking.

So what was that benefit? It certainly wasn't the vaccines, since we were first showing an advantage in late summer 2020, long before the vaccines arrived. And to emphasise that, rebellious Londoners have been vaccine resistant with much lower rates:

16.8% of the eligible have not received a first dose, 24.5% have not received a second dose and 57% have not received a booster to date, all far behind the UK vaccination rates.

So no, it clearly wasn't a vaccination advantage over the rest of the country. It was as I've long insisted, the benefit of the very early huge infection hit that we took, our immune systems creating natural immunity potentially more beneficial than the immunity conferred by any of the vaccines.

Having received so much past opposition to my views on this issue, it is naturally pleasing that there's now increasing authoritative support. The first was from Professor David Spiegelhalter, the UK's chief statistician who long after reached the same conclusion as my London one for the UK's data. Then Danidl in here reported a professor of his acquaintance reaching a conclusion exactly matching mine, that the best result comes from being infected first before any vaccination, with the later addition of the first vaccination, then the second, progressively adding to the immunity.

Then Woosh posted the following, giving one reason for the London difference following infection:

"The Roche N assay is the interesting one. It measures the level of N-antibodies (N=nucleocapsid) post infection, the higher, the better.
It shows that London region has the highest seropositivity, South West lowest.
That explains why the death rate in London is lower than national average."

NHS region Weeks 21 - 32

East of England 13.3% (12.1% - 14.6%)
London 25.0% (23.5% - 26.6%)
Midlands 16.2% (15.0% - 17.6%)
North East and Yorkshire 15.7% (14.3% - 17.1%)
North West 20.7% (19.1% - 22.4%)
South East 12.9% (11.7% - 14.2%)
South West 9.4% (8.3% - 10.6%) . . . . . . . . . .
LINK

You can see the scale of the London advantage I've highlighted in bold. However that isn't the whole story since the South West measures low but also has a London style advantage with low infection rates.

Conclusions

My first conclusion will be contentious since it has a political dimension. It is that the delay before the government acted to bring in protective measures was not a mistake in hindsight. It was an inadvertent benefit, since it increased the numbers gaining superior natural immunity from prior infection, so ultimately reducing deaths in London. Nor was it selective about who died, since we know Covid sought out the most vulnerable, no matter how early or late the infection. The only material difference was that it brought forward the deaths that did occur by the length of the delay.

My second conclusion with hindsight is that the best way to have tackled the pandemic has three elements:

1) Immediately without any delay introduce PPE and isolation advice exclusively for the most vulnerable due to age or prior health issues, but to no others.

2) Have far better preparedness for the tiny numbers of them who do still get infected and suffer a serious Covid issue to maximise their survival.

3) The above allowing the healthy mainstream population, mostly of working age, to continue living and working as normal without protections, while gaining the low consequence infections and the resulting superior natural immunity before the vaccines arrived.

These would have resulted in a huge economic benefit, while having the potential to substantially reduce total deaths in the way London did for the the latter.

Finally and sadly, the foregoing information is of little use for those who have been vaccinated since the vaccines will in most cases have prevented them from getting sufficiently infected to gain the natural self immunity. The infection needs to be prior to any vaccines to gain that.

For everyone now though, get fully vaccinated.

N.B. All data used up to the end of 31/12/21 where possible.
.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
  • Informative
Reactions: Nev and Woosh

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,214
16,816
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I, ve just signed the Change.org petition against Blair getting his knighthood. Think he'll get it irrespective of how many sign but it does send a message..(over 200k now signed)
And, I, ve had guessed induction hobs on iron pans would tend to demagnetise??? Both the heating and continual reversal of magnetic field will try and destroy magnets??? I, d guess..
don't forget the role of IDS in the Iraq war. Most of the country was against the war, if it was not for IDS asking his MPs to vote with Blair, the UK may have adopted a more nuanced role , like France.
Nearly all tory MPs voted with Blair.
 

Advertisers