Not at all. I find that useful. And I mean that. How can I put it. As a remainer (bad pun intended) on the titanic I'd have preferred stand up comedy to a marching band.
Can you feed yourself on £1 a day?
The international campaign group The Global Poverty Project to ask people to feed themselves on just £1 a day, for five days.www.bbc.co.uk
Yes - it's pretty easy and actually quite healthy to do, with beansprouts. Sorry, I'll get back to farting in a corner...
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
But all you are doing is perpetuating the spiral.
If folk have done wrong, either politically or legally, the only way to deal with it is officially, either the ballot box or the courts.
No matter what anyone says it is not justified labelling folk scum, and worse. It simply justifies a spiral down in behaviour. As I said earlier, folk justifying it are probably showing their own nature. It's wrong Jonathon, irrespective of your allegations.
In a previous life I had the enviable task of disarming two baseball bat wielding young men looking for our headmaster... They felt utterly justified in our discussions and that their behaviour was a perfectly normal reaction...It wasn't. They were wrong too.
No matter how you assess it you can not justify it, well, no legally minded person can.
If certain Tories have taken bribes that should be dealt with. This incident emphasises one of problems with generalising and calling entire party "scum".
This chap obviously wasn't.
Labour Party for a while now seem to think they inhabit some higher moral standing ground, justifying such comments. It's totally counter productive. Voting public don't see it that way, they just see trouble causing extremists . And let's be fair, Labour have had their fare share of members getting fingers caught in till. (McCluskey and Ex Liverpool mayor??)
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Ah yes, the first past the post Westminster system. In blighty with its rigged mass media. And vested offshore interests. Good luck with that (changing the system from within as Cohen would say). Calling a corrupt person scum isnt quite the same as wielding a baseball bat.
She didn't call a corrupt person scum. She called all Tories Scum... And doing so makes doing something about the system you mention so much harder. She hasn't gained a thing... Like most emotional outbursts its totally unproductive and almost certainly damaging to Labour or herself.. Not the Tories. It only appeals to a minority of like minded offensive types. Puts rest off. Does Tories a favour. Look at what's happening on social media. Isn't doing Labour any favours at all.
And Tories don't have to say a word. Everybody can see the irony in her comments after the events of last few days.
Starmer and every Labour supporter should have criticised and distanced themselves from comments. With recent news the whole episode is yet another issue coming back to haunt Labour. It should be just haunting Rayner, but all those folk not willing to criticise her are all seen in same e light.
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Perhaps "Thieves" is a more genteel description or maybe the immortal Skinner exchange when he made this observation
"Half the Mp's on the opposite bench are crooks!"
The speaker asked him to reconsider
Skinner thought for a moment then replied
"Half the Mp's on the opposite bench are not crooks!"
It is very difficult for an individual to get their opinion on these alleged wrong-doings taken up either at the ballot box or by the courts.
The government appears to be trying to ensure that judicial reviews become less accessible. They fail to institute inquiries. They have a Home Secretary who appears to want to ensure Border Force cannot beheld to account even if they directly cause deaths.
And we are not in a position to vote until there is an election, nor to precipitate an election except in exceptional situations.
"... one of our best MPs."
Unfortunately, that can easily be read as some less good MPs possibly not deserving the same level of sadness/anger/protection.
I say that for all I would have disagreed with a lot that Amess said and stood for, it is bad for all of us when any MP is attacked. All MPs are equal in that sense.
I see the UN has changed their mind:
Matt Hancock, the former UK health secretary, will no longer become a special envoy for the United Nations, after the job offer was withdrawn.
Matt Hancock, the former UK health secretary, will no longer become a special envoy for the United Nations, after the job offer was withdrawn.
So how does calling people scum help with any of that? Especially so when it was such a generalisation and by the way not said by some ordinary member of public. She is deputy leader of labour party. She isn't an ordinary member of public and as such has responsibilities beyond members of public.
And it actually prolongs much of what you describe.
Can't understand why anyone would defend such comments? Isn't that part of problem? People actually thinking unacceptable behaviour is acceptable?
I wonder what people would say if a Policeman, Teacher, Nurse or Doctor offered such a description of their counterparts.??? But it's acceptable from a labour party deputy leader. Says something about Labour at moment.
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But are quite prepared to make an exception for the Goves, Farages Johnsons of this world.
You have the strangest illogical slant on reality
It's a ridiculous world when an MP has become an endangered job.
My daughter joined Fire Service 12 years ago, you accept she is going to be put in dangerous situations. It comes with the job, as it does with a policeman and other walks of life... But an MP??? What on earth is going on?
No, but why say it or defend saying it? The woman saying it could be deputy priminister? How on earth can anyone think this is acceptable?
????
You, ll have to clarify that OG.
I don't buy into much of the propoganda pushed by both sides.
Its not long since we were being told Johnson had lit his cigar with a five pound note infront of some homeless man. An allegation proved utter rubbish but the mud sticks. Johnson isn't a great politician by any stretch of imagination but neither is he the person many like to portray. Same as Gove.
Yep, I wouldn't want them as friends but I don't buy the BS either.
Labour. supporters always like to claim moral high ground and then think it fine to insult and abuse those they assume on a lower plain. We see it on here, we see it from Labour MPs. And all these folk failing to criticise comments such as those from Rayner are simply buying into the current Labour narrative... A methodology keeping them out of contention.
Who wants a labour deputy PM describing those she works with, those she meets every day as "scum. etc etc". I don't.
But by all means OG, carry on digging, defending the indefensible.
Once upon a time we would all have thought her comments appalling. Now, we are surprised when MPs then get stabbed.??? Its just part of our demise into anarchy.
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And Johnson's record on use of language is acceptable?
"Scum" is a mild schoolyard insult compared to the massively insulting way Johnson has, does and most likely will continue to spout.
Each time he insults a president, of Turkey, the USA, Russia or elsewhere, most of the population of Africa and beyond, women everywhere, and on and on, he insults us because he does it in our name.
Agreed to a point. His letter box, rent boys and other such comments are totally indefensible... But nobody is defending them... He was out of order... As was Rayner, who to be fair came over far more aggressive, confrontational and it seemed said in seriousness. Johnson are along lines of Prince Philip... Out of order..silly.
And the point you miss is Boris is in power. Rayner isn't. Her attitude, along with many other Labour mps and anyone supporting such comments is exactly what's keeping Boris, Gove and Co in no 10.
Folk don't want the combative, fighting talk in power. It makes them appear radicalised. Boris just comes over daft, when we all know he is anything but.
I just don't understand why folk can't see the damage Rayner and such are doing, especially so in light of recent events.
Of course the two events are likely totally unrelated but the impression it leaves will never be subdued. How does Labour look in eyes of vast majority this week?
As just an individual speaking only for myself, a damn sight more appealing than the tories.
Don't mince your words, David... 
Lord Puttnam announces retirement from House of Lords: FULL SPEECH
www.davidputtnam.com
Lord Puttnam announces retirement from House of Lords: FULL SPEECH
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www.davidputtnam.com
...and a heartwarming story about sport at the end.Don't mince your words, David...
Lord Puttnam announces retirement from House of Lords: FULL SPEECH
Activities Archives