Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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BJ & Sunak decided to join the pilot scheme not to isolate despite being pinged.
Actually, none of the ministers say that they will isolate.
Leading by examples so it seems.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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BJ & Sunak decided to join the pilot scheme not to isolate despite being pinged.
Actually, none of the ministers say that they will isolate.
Leading by examples so it seems.
I wonder if they are actually capable of rational thinking about the way the public will see this?
Welcome to Animal Farm
 
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Woosh

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Neil Ferguson on Marr show suggested that new cases could hit 200,000 a day, hospitalisations 2,000 a day. Success could be defined as keeping hospitalisations to 1000 a day.
 
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oldgroaner

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Gerald Bell@GOldcodger

Unfortunately we are still being governed by Foreign money, the donors must be delighted on the latest government initiative of inducing a Lemming like cull of the population. Much cheaper for them than actual war, but frankly that is what it is in a new form.
 

Woosh

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how much inheritance tax do you think covid deaths would generate?
Plus, it would reduce the budget of social care.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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how about the under 18 still in education? they are the reservoir for the virus.
Like all of us, they should self protect of course. Just because the government says we don't HAVE to do something doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't. People don't have to use sun-screen by law, but it's a damn good idea to do so.

This is one of the curses of the welfare state, people expecting to be spoon fed every little detail instead of using commonsense and working out things for themselves.

You could go on for ever looking for every exception, you know that they are not the bulk of the 5 million refusniks.

I will continue to repeat ad nauseum that there is no other option than us taking care of ourselves until there is a truly effective vaccine. The economy cannot stand the former damaging fiscal measures any more and in my opinion they should never have been instituted anyway.

There's no free ride for all of us in this life. Pandemic or not, we have to provide for ourselves, directly or indirectly.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Neil Ferguson on Marr show suggested that new cases could hit 200,000 a day, hospitalisations 2,000 a day.
Unfortunately we are still being governed by Foreign money, the donors must be delighted on the latest government initiative of inducing a Lemming like cull of the population.
You are both going to be so disappointed when this doesn't happen.

Remember my promotion of Sweden's method last year when this forum was united against me, saying Sweden was going to suffer terribly? Instead they ended up far better than us with our 50% more deaths pro rata to population.

You were all wrong back then, just as you are going to be all wrong now.

Either it will naturally subside, or the people will start to get scared and act accordingly, with the government reintroducing civil controls in partnership with that. But there won't be any more cash handouts.
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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I see the government has managed a W-turn.

Coronavirus live: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak will now isolate after anger following health secretary’s diagnosis
 
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oldgroaner

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You were all wrong back then, just as you are going to be all wrong now.
Really and they did as well as Japan and New Zealand did they?
No, they simply didn't, no matter how carefully you try to play this, you're wrong.
Not us
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Really and they did as well as Japan and New Zealand did they?
No, they simply didn't, no matter how carefully you try to play this, you're wrong.
Not us
Japan and NZ have nothing to do with this issue, that's you "playing this".

In reponse to my contentions in favour of Sweden's voluntary approach, you and many others insisted they would do far worse than our enforced approach.

YOU WERE WRONG, THEY DID FAR BETTER.

Despite being wrong then, you are still at it now, still posting against the voluntary approach.
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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Text taken from the BBC website.
I could make a few comments about now it is time for these distribution networks to show their solidarity with their fellow UK citizens and subsidise them, since there are only 1.5 million out of the 66 Million they supply, or that since they already gouge enough from the Southern Irish the extra cost is negligible.

Major UK supermarket chains have warned that Northern Ireland Protocol costs could "force" retailers to switch from British suppliers to EU suppliers.

The protocol is a set of rules jointly agreed between the UK government and the EU to regulate post-Brexit trade to and from Northern Ireland.

It led to checks on some goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

Six supermarkets claim the next phase of checks will drive up costs both for them and Northern Ireland consumers.

Representatives from Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's, Co-op, Iceland and Marks and Spencer have sent a joint letter to the UK government and the European Commission to highlight their concerns.

Together, the six retailers represent more than 75% of Northern Ireland's grocery market, according to the British Retail Consortium, which co-ordinated the letter.

The letter appeals for action to prevent disruption to trade, so UK supermarkets can "continue to provide the people of Northern Ireland with choice and affordability".

What is the Northern Ireland Protocol?
UK urged to match EU's 'flexibility' over protocol
Government to publish NI Protocol plans in July
Supermarkets face 'severe problems' over Protocol
The Northern Ireland Protocol was agreed in October 2019 in a bid to prevent post-Brexit checks along the Irish border on goods moving between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

The UK and the EU decided that goods checks should instead be carried out at Northern Ireland ports, which is why the protocol is often referred to as the Irish Sea border.

The protocol keeps Northern Ireland in the EU single market for goods and means EU customs rules are enforced at its ports.

'Grace periods'
It came into force on 1 January 2021 but the rules are being phased in gradually in a bid to protect food supplies and to give retailers times to adapt to the changes.

So-called grace periods were introduced, during which certain products are not yet subject to inspection.

Last month, the EU agreed to a three-month delay to its proposed ban on some chilled meat products from Great Britain - including fresh sausages and mince - from being sold in Northern Ireland.

Sausages
image captionThe EU has strict rules about the importation of chilled meat products like mince and sausages
The chilled meat rule is now set to come into force in October.

"The end to the Northern Ireland grace period looms in the mind of every British retailer with supply chains in Northern Ireland," said Helen Dickinson, the chief executive of the British Retail Consortium.

"If no action is taken, then it will be the people the Northern Ireland, with half of the discretionary income of Great Britain households, who bear the brunt of this stalemate - meaning less choice and higher costs for essential food purchases."

'Inevitable disruption'
The letter from the six supermarkets was sent to the UK's Brexit Minister Lord Frost, and Maroš Šefčovič, vice-president of the European Commission.

"Our members made significant investments in the last few months to avoid disruption, yet disruption will become inevitable if the regime that will come into force in October is unrealistic and disproportionately onerous," Ms Dickinson said.

"Retailers have shown their compliance; the government and EU must now help us by removing the barriers to GB-NI supply chains."

Last week, Lord Frost acknowledged that trading problems associated with the Northern Ireland Protocol had contributed to a rise in cross-border trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

He said this was "in many ways a problem" adding that it showed that many Northern Ireland firms could not use their first choice suppliers.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,232
30,626
Text taken from the BBC website.
I could make a few comments about now it is time for these distribution networks to show their solidarity with their fellow UK citizens and subsidise them, since there are only 1.5 million out of the 66 Million they supply, or that since they already gouge enough from the Southern Irish the extra cost is negligible.

Major UK supermarket chains have warned that Northern Ireland Protocol costs could "force" retailers to switch from British suppliers to EU suppliers.

The protocol is a set of rules jointly agreed between the UK government and the EU to regulate post-Brexit trade to and from Northern Ireland.

It led to checks on some goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

Six supermarkets claim the next phase of checks will drive up costs both for them and Northern Ireland consumers.

Representatives from Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's, Co-op, Iceland and Marks and Spencer have sent a joint letter to the UK government and the European Commission to highlight their concerns.

Together, the six retailers represent more than 75% of Northern Ireland's grocery market, according to the British Retail Consortium, which co-ordinated the letter.

The letter appeals for action to prevent disruption to trade, so UK supermarkets can "continue to provide the people of Northern Ireland with choice and affordability".

What is the Northern Ireland Protocol?
UK urged to match EU's 'flexibility' over protocol
Government to publish NI Protocol plans in July
Supermarkets face 'severe problems' over Protocol
The Northern Ireland Protocol was agreed in October 2019 in a bid to prevent post-Brexit checks along the Irish border on goods moving between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

The UK and the EU decided that goods checks should instead be carried out at Northern Ireland ports, which is why the protocol is often referred to as the Irish Sea border.

The protocol keeps Northern Ireland in the EU single market for goods and means EU customs rules are enforced at its ports.

'Grace periods'
It came into force on 1 January 2021 but the rules are being phased in gradually in a bid to protect food supplies and to give retailers times to adapt to the changes.

So-called grace periods were introduced, during which certain products are not yet subject to inspection.

Last month, the EU agreed to a three-month delay to its proposed ban on some chilled meat products from Great Britain - including fresh sausages and mince - from being sold in Northern Ireland.

Sausages
image captionThe EU has strict rules about the importation of chilled meat products like mince and sausages
The chilled meat rule is now set to come into force in October.

"The end to the Northern Ireland grace period looms in the mind of every British retailer with supply chains in Northern Ireland," said Helen Dickinson, the chief executive of the British Retail Consortium.

"If no action is taken, then it will be the people the Northern Ireland, with half of the discretionary income of Great Britain households, who bear the brunt of this stalemate - meaning less choice and higher costs for essential food purchases."

'Inevitable disruption'
The letter from the six supermarkets was sent to the UK's Brexit Minister Lord Frost, and Maroš Šefčovič, vice-president of the European Commission.

"Our members made significant investments in the last few months to avoid disruption, yet disruption will become inevitable if the regime that will come into force in October is unrealistic and disproportionately onerous," Ms Dickinson said.

"Retailers have shown their compliance; the government and EU must now help us by removing the barriers to GB-NI supply chains."

Last week, Lord Frost acknowledged that trading problems associated with the Northern Ireland Protocol had contributed to a rise in cross-border trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

He said this was "in many ways a problem" adding that it showed that many Northern Ireland firms could not use their first choice suppliers.
As much as I have sympathies with both Northern Ireland's position and yours, the supermarkets are businesses with responsibilities to shareholders. If buying from EU suppliers is a commercial solution to the protocol problems, then so be it.

The whole answer lies in the hands of Northern Ireland. They voted to remain in the EU but were politically obstructed from realising that. The people there need to democratically make a new decision, which is more important to them en masse? Remaining fully within the United Kingdom in all economic respects or fully returning to the EU by politically reuniting with the south.

The current protocol situation and indeed the Good Friday Agreement are both ridiculous since they imply having one's cake but eating it, so will only ever cause continuing problems.
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
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Ireland
As much as I have sympathies with both Northern Ireland's position and yours, the supermarkets are businesses with responsibilities to shareholders. If buying from EU suppliers is a commercial solution to the protocol problems, then so be it.

The whole answer lies in the hands of Northern Ireland. They voted to remain in the EU but were politically obstructed from realising that. The people there need to democratically make a new decision, which is more important to them en masse? Remaining fully within the United Kingdom in all economic respects or fully returning to the EU by politically reuniting with the south.

The current protocol situation and indeed the Good Friday Agreement are both ridiculous since they imply having one's cake but eating it, so will only ever cause continuing problems.
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Sorry flecc. Even you cannot see this one. I have skin in this game, I and my 4 million countrymen, agreed a GFA and we changed our Constitution to even facilitate that. The UK from London signed off on certain principles. They signed international Treaties on this basis. It doesn't get more official than that. .The GFA is not the problem. The only way that can be resolved is the NI Protocol in the short to medium term. For medium think 20 years.
The answer is not in NI s hands. The answer is not in RoI hands ,the answer is not in EU hands,.. the mess is in Westminster hands, and more particularly it is in BJs hands. He cajoled the UK Parliament into voting for an Act which was logically ..and now logistically unsound.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Japan and NZ have nothing to do with this issue, that's you "playing this".

In reponse to my contentions in favour of Sweden's voluntary approach, you and many others insisted they would do far worse than our enforced approach.

YOU WERE WRONG, THEY DID FAR BETTER.

Despite being wrong then, you are still at it now, still posting against the voluntary approach.
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Don't let facts get in the way.
And the virus won in Sweden, they have not defeated it either, any more than we have.
And yes I am against the voluntary approach, it is simply an admission of defeat in the face of an enemy we are encouraging to mutate into a very deadly killer indeed
Crass stupidity
:cool:
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,232
30,626
The answer is not in NI s hands. The answer is not in RoI hands ,the answer is not in EU hands,.. the mess is in Westminster hands, and more particularly it is in BJs hands. He cajoled the UK Parliament into voting for an Act which was logically ..and now logistically unsound.
Of course that is true, but leaving the EU is done and dusted and probably won't be undone for a very long time, if ever. So that isn't in any way an answer and answers are needed now.

Otherwise keep on floundering around in the mess BJ and co. created.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,232
30,626
And yes I am against the voluntary approach, it is simply an admission of defeat in the face of an enemy we are encouraging to mutate into a very deadly killer indeed
Within a very short time of the virus arriving in their respective areas, there was a South African variant, an Indian variant, a Brazilian variant, a Kent variant etc.

Yet Sweden has been implementing their voluntary policy for all of last year and this. You say it is a deadly variant producing policy, but how come there is no Swedish variant?

I'll answer that.

It's because their voluntary policy has worked, with them self protecting and accepting the vaccines.

All they have is the Europe wide Delta variant which they are concerned about, urging everyone to grab their jabs ASAP, but, and I quote, "the spread of coronavirus is at a low level in Sweden".

Sorry OG, wrong again, the voluntary approach hasn't caused them a problem, very far from it.
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