Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Whether people living in flat complexes or don't have off road parking should even own cars is another debate. Why should the local community be paying for these peoples storage problem?...
Despite being a motor vehicle fan I've always felt the same way. It was a pity that the authorities didn't prevent street parking back in the 1920s when it started to intensify. It's strange that they didn't since horses and the vehicles they pulled were always taken off the streets previously.
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Hopefully we'll follow, since it's solely a cosmetic whitener with no other value that I know of.

I wonder where this leaves the titanium staples sometimes used in internal surgery such as the many used to hold my inguinal hernia patch in place?
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To hell with your hernia, .. what about my 6 stents? Im not sure I want a rebore and replacing them with a mild steel potscrub.
Actually I don't think either of use need to worry. As a metal I think its pretty stable.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Conspicuous lack of comments about Hartleypool and predicted Conservative collapse.??? Ah ah..
Conservative gain 9...Labour lose 23!!!
Will that be the media bias, or the Corbyn effect then lads?
Perhaps it's the fault of Jerry mongering or Starmer???
Suspect it's more along lines of support for current government and the Micron effect.. Him sending boats into Jersey was perfectly timed.. Hartleypool fishing heritage..???
Or perhaps folk just like Conservatives these days... Including Boris.
Oh, of course it will be voter intelligence, or lack of it.. Funny, I thought intelligence was a constant, a fixed characteristic. Nope, not now, its something to blame by desperate Labour. Perhaps they should start voter improvement classes. Starmer and Corbyn could organise them. Ah ah ah..
 

daveboy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2012
952
1,366
pontefract
Conspicuous lack of comments about Hartleypool and predicted Conservative collapse.??? Ah ah..
Conservative gain 9...Labour lose 23!!!
Will that be the media bias, or the Corbyn effect then lads?
Perhaps it's the fault of Jerry mongering or Starmer???
Suspect it's more along lines of support for current government and the Micron effect.. Him sending boats into Jersey was perfectly timed.. Hartleypool fishing heritage..???
Or perhaps folk just like Conservatives these days... Including Boris.
The Labour candidate was a doctor in a local hospital. Should have been a shoe in...
but he was also an ardent remainer and 77% voted leave.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Here is another classic






Dr Daniel C de la Fuente

9m
Replying to
@Otto_English
and
@gethb_
They forget to mention that the gunboats left BEFORE the French fishermen and the protest still went ahead
French really helped threatening to cut power, which turns out was a none threat anyway, so just served to fan flames. (Jersey spokesman insisted Islands are capable of producing all their own anyway??)
Not Micron's finest hour... But then again he doesn't have one.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
The Labour candidate was a doctor in a local hospital. Should have been a shoe in...
but he was also an ardent remainer and 77% voted leave.
Sounds a good Labour policy, put an unpopular candidate up for election. They have a habit of doing that.. Corbyn and Starmer???
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Starmer really needs to go


The future has been cancelled due to lack of intelligence
What a dreadful turnout.

I have no idea whether it reflects turnout in Wales, but I briefly heard of queues at polling stations. I hope we had better than that.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
What a dreadful turnout.

I have no idea whether it reflects turnout in Wales, but I briefly heard of queues at polling stations. I hope we had better than that.
Fortuitous for Labour.
Which policy maker puts a remainer up for election in Hartlepool? Bet he (or she) has a pedelec.
 
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Nev

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2018
1,507
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North Wales
Although KS may not be very charismatic I can't think of anyone else in the Labour party that could do a better job. I think Labour needs to have a long hard think about how the political landscape has changed over the last 10 to 15 years and work out just how exactly it can get back into power.

I think they are hoping that by the time of the next election BJ will have made so many mistakes and there will be some many stories concerning Tory sleaze that the electorate will be glad to get rid of them. I don't think they can rely on that strategy.

If we look at the last 100 year or so the tories have either been in power or shared power for most of them. The first past the post system favours the tories and Labour needs to wake up to this fact.

Labour has lost Scotland (I think they currently only have 1 MP there) and it's extremely unlikely to ever get it back, in fact its far more likely Scotland will become independent in the next 10 years or so.

The tories have pulled off a very clever trick they have gained millions of working class voters and not lost many of the older well off voters in the South.

I think Labour need to promise the Liberals if they win the next election they will introduce PR they also need to form some kind of pact so that Labour and the Libs do not stand against one another in the next election, even then though I think it's going to be very tough for them to win power.

The sad fact is that we are very close and have been for most of the past 100 years to a one party state.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Although KS may not be very charismatic I can't think of anyone else in the Labour party that could do a better job. I think Labour needs to have a long hard think about how the political landscape has changed over the last 10 to 15 years and work out just how exactly it can get back into power.

I think they are hoping that by the time of the next election BJ will have made so many mistakes and there will be some many stories concerning Tory sleaze that the electorate will be glad to get rid of them. I don't think they can rely on that strategy.

If we look at the last 100 year or so the tories have either been in power or shared power for most of them. The first past the post system favours the tories and Labour needs to wake up to this fact.

Labour has lost Scotland (I think they currently only have 1 MP there) and it's extremely unlikely to ever get it back, in fact its far more likely Scotland will become independent in the next 10 years or so.

The tories have pulled off a very clever trick they have gained millions of working class voters and not lost many of the older well off voters in the South.

I think Labour need to promise the Liberals if they win the next election they will introduce PR they also need to form some kind of pact so that Labour and the Libs do not stand against one another in the next election, even then though I think it's going to be very tough for them to win power.

The sad fact is that we are very close and have been for most of the past 100 years to a one party state.
Good Post.
Labour need to have a good look at themselves and represent the country and not some idealistic view point.
Any viable party comes from the electorate and represents it. Labour, as many on here also think, feel the party should lead with morals, policies and agendas. They should not. They should represent the majority view. OG's point about voter intelligence, perhaps said in jest, is the issue. Labour see voters are wrong and should modify to their way of operating. Tories, even if distasteful at times, represent how people feel and see things. They appeal to the electorate.
Starmer coming on all offended by Tory sleaze sums it up. He should be talking jobs, health, minimum wage, prosperity, booster jabs,voter wealth and well being. Attacking the Tories continually is tiresome and counter productive.
We, ve had page after page of attacks on Boris and the Govt on here. Its pointless.
On here, and as in Labour,we should be shouting what we want, new policies, new outlooks, new jobs, different tax regimes, help for new businesses, higher minimum wage, better worker rights, incentives, building programmes, initiatives,equal rights, less prejudice, the list is endless for improvement. But just as labour don't, we don't. We moan about Boris, gun boats, sleaze, dodgy contracts, voter intelligence. (or lack of it), Brexit, rejoining, leavers etc etc.
Doesn't help that Momentum are now telling Starmer Corbyn won Hartleypool. A split and fractious party?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Starmer really needs to go


The future has been cancelled due to lack of intelligence
As I forecast for both, Starmer was the wrong man to take over the Labour party and Hartlepool went blue, in a big way. With a loss of that scale in a former Labour seat, Starmer should step down. The loss wouldn't have been that great under Corbyn since he could hold onto the old left wing vote.

The left don't trust Starmer, they look at him and see another Blair, yet another well-to-do barrister pretending to be left wing.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Labour need to have a good look at themselves and represent the country and not some idealistic view point.
As I've consistently said, that is not what Labour needs to do, adding yet more dishonesty to our appalling two faced politics.

Best that Labour stick to their principles and slip honestly into oblivion, accepting that in this small "c" conservative country we no longer have an electorate of working class men.

Our position is akin to that in the USA where the whole country is right wing and anti anything left wing.

So we need a rival opposition party to be formed, also biased politically right with a hint but no more of a social conscience. Anything more than hint of that and the Tories will condemn it as Communist, Trotskyite, Marxist. Labour cannot fulfill that role, nobody will believe them under the Labour title. Nor can the Lib-Dems, given their history.

Politically it's not a nice future, but it's inevitable with the way the west is going and the intrinsic selfishness of the majority of people. Self interest is all for our electorate, they just want to hear promises of riches even if they never actually come true, it's the hope and belief that count.

AKA The American Dream.
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
As I've consistently said, that is not what Labour needs to do, adding yet more dishonesty to our appalling two faced politics.

Best that Labour stick to their principles and slip honestly into oblivion, accepting that in this small "c" conservative country we no longer have an electorate of working class men.

Our position is akin to that in the USA where the whole country is right wing and anti anything left wing.

So we need a rival opposition party to be formed, also biased politically right with a hint but no more of a social conscience. Anything more than hint of that and the Tories will condemn it as Communist, Trotskyite, Marxist. Labour cannot fulfill that role, nobody will believe them under the Labour title. Nor can the Lib-Dems, given their history.

Politically it's not a nice future, but it's inevitable with the way the west is going and the intrinsic selfishness of the majority of people. Self interest is all for our electorate, they just want to hear promises of riches even if they never actually come true, it's the hope and belief that count.

AKA The American Dream.
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I actually agree with that. Electorate are certainly more materialistic and perhaps greedy but giving in and walking away is surely not the answer.
Surely there is a place for a more modern approach to socialism. Looking after all of us shouldn't be out of reach for a wealthy country.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
I actually agree with that. Electorate are certainly more materialistic and perhaps greedy but giving in and walking away is surely not the answer.
Surely there is a place for a more modern approach to socialism. Looking after all of us shouldn't be out of reach for a wealthy country.
A nice idea, but it cannot work here, the people are too selfish. The slightest hint of a social conscience and the Tories and their press will scream Communism, Trotskyite, Marxist and the people will believe them. And if that doesn't work well enough they will fabricate disgusting lies like accusations of anti-semitism.

This behaviour is fundamental to right wing politics, whether Republican, Conservative or Fascist Nazi, the lie is their weapon for success.

Look what happened to Obama in the USA and Medicare. Every lie was trotted out, he was Kenyan, he wasn't born in the USA, he was a Muslim, he was lining his pockets. So he was out and the Republicans scrapped Medicare as much as they dared.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
When you say "the whole country", I take it you are referring to England?
Of course, we are politically separate, you have your own Scottish government for social matters.

Hopefully soon for everything.
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