Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

But for street charging, wouldn’t that involve getting up in middle of the night to vacate a charging point so that someone else can get up in middle of the night to plug their car in?

That problem is a long way off. For a long time mainly the half of the population who can charge at home will buy them, and it will take many years to manufacture those over 15 million e-cars. The lamp post chargers aren't rapid ones so once you've plugged in, it's yours for the night or day. That's how it already works at present

I don’t think generating capacity is the problem. It’s the large number of people who can’t accommodate a charging point on their premises.

As above, the half who can is more than we can supply with an e-car for many years.

Thats fine of course. ICE cars will be selling up to the deadline in almost ten years. The average ICE car life is reckoned to be 22 years, so we have almost 32 years to make 30 million e-cars. Should be easy, we've made over 2 million ICE cars a year on a number of occasions, so under a million e-cars a year should be a doddle.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Another Brexit triumph turns sour

""Jersey fishing boats join French protesting against the fishing conditions imposed on French sailors after Brexit"

How very UNBREXITY of those naughty Jersey sailors!

 

[flecc]

E-car news

This week in Britain we reached over 15,000 charging locations, having 23,000 charge points and over 40,000 plug in connectors.

There are now less than 6000 petrol/diesel filling stations left in Britain.

Sales of e-cars this year are 130% up on last year and that was a huge increase on the previous year.

Recently the Tesla 3 became the first e-car to ever be in the top ten sellers here of any kind of car model, in at number 6.

These should convince any doubter who thinks e-cars won't make it in the market, they are here to stay with a vengeance.

The weekly expansion of charger numbers is so great it's difficult to keep a check on, there's even a tidal powered one. Shetland News reported that marine energy specialist Nova Innovation had proudly installed a new EV charging point – powered by the tide – on the Isle of Yell in the Shetland Islands. The windswept location sports one charging device with two 22kW connectors.

The following link shows the scale of many charging installations now:

Moto opens major EV charging site at Rugby Services
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

There are other countries in the world than the UK, with different legislation. In Ireland the EV road tax is 120 euro pa whereas it is 280 for my diesel.. But it is the insurance which would hurt. That would typically be another 600.

If you are paying that, they’ve had your trousers down mate.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Look at fleccs timings. The on street user will have the car plugged in all night. But the reality is lots of people have garages or driveways. The none grant cost of installation is under 1grand for a nice shiny new socket. Now that is less than a garage door or a glass porch and is a once off. Soon it will be in the same luxury bracket as ...do you have cable TV.
Now the power requirement domestically is overstated. It is about the same as a power electric shower .the only difference being it is running for a number of hours . ...but at a time when the vast majority of items in the home are off

I know all that about people with drives and who own a garage door. But there are many people in the U.K. who aren’t so lucky and would need to rely on street charging. It’s quite possible for there to be 100 cars parked on a street and only 10 lamp posts. What do the other 90 EV owners do whilst the lucky 10 charge theirs? Agreed the car probably only needs to be in charge 3 or 4 hours, but someone plugging theirs into a lamppost at 10:00 pm isn’t going to get up at 2:00 am and move their car so that another person can have a go.

Street charging infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the poor sods living in flats and houses with no garden.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

E-car news

This week in Britain we reached over 15,000 charging locations, having 23,000 charge points and over 40,000 plug in connectors.

There are now less than 6000 petrol/diesel filling stations left in Britain.

Sales of e-cars this year are 130% up on last year and that was a huge increase on the previous year.

Recently the Tesla 3 became the first e-car to ever be in the top ten sellers here of any kind of car model, in at number 6.

These should convince any doubter who thinks e-cars won't make it in the market, they are here to stay with a vengeance.

The weekly expansion of charger numbers is so great it's difficult to keep a check on, there's even a tidal powered one. Shetland News reported that marine energy specialist Nova Innovation had proudly installed a new EV charging point – powered by the tide – on the Isle of Yell in the Shetland Islands. The windswept location sports one charging device with two 22kW connectors.

The following link shows the scale of many charging installations now:

Moto opens major EV charging site at Rugby Services
.

Doesn’t matter. There still aren’t enough. It takes about 3 minutes to fill a car with diesel energy. It takes about 1 hour to fill an electric car with energy at a rapid charge point. Longer if it’s not rapid.

 

[flecc]

Doesn’t matter. There still aren’t enough. It takes about 3 minutes to fill a car with diesel energy. It takes about 1 hour to fill an electric car with energy at a rapid charge point. Longer if it’s not rapid.

That's irrelevant since we only have a handful of pre 2019 e-cars and those like mine are charged at home 90% or more of the charges. There's already far more chargers than those of us who ever charge away from home.

The really rapid expansion in e-cars and their usage is happening now with ultra rapid charging. The following from my above link:

"The ultra-rapid 350kW direct current (DC) chargers will have the capability to add up to 100 miles of range in less than five minutes and will accept contactless payment."

Since you'll already have covered up to 300 miles and would usually welcome a break after that mileage on our poor and crowded UK roads, 15 minutes or so over a coffee could see you filled up again. And you won't be holding a smelly fuel nozzle for several minutes or queuing to pay.
.

 

[Danidl]

If you are paying that, they’ve had your trousers down mate.

Ahh.. but you don't know my income.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

That's irrelevant since we only have a handful of pre 2019 e-cars and those like mine are charged at home 90% or more of the charges. There's already far more chargers than those of us who ever charge away from home.

The really rapid expansion in e-cars and their usage is happening now with ultra rapid charging. The following from my above link:

"The ultra-rapid 350kW direct current (DC) chargers will have the capability to add up to 100 miles of range in less than five minutes and will accept contactless payment."

Since you'll already have covered up to 300 miles and would usually welcome a break after that mileage on our poor and crowded UK roads, 15 minutes or so over a coffee could see you filled up again. And you won't be holding a smelly fuel nozzle for several minutes or queuing to pay.
.

Interesting. I’m very supportive of the move to electric cars and will buy one in the not too distant future.

I’ve been away from this thread for a while and don’t have time to read what I’ve missed. Has anything been said about battery life? What range could be expected after 10 years or 100000 miles? Do those rapid DC chargers stress the battery? Is it better to charge them more gently over a longer period?

I’ve still got the original Panasonic battery from my 2008 Kalkhoff Pro-Connect. It still takes and holds a charge. It’s difficult to say the level of charge, but I’d estimate 25 to 30 % of when it was new. If I use the bike in minimum assist, the battery had a very useable range.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Ahh.. but you don't know my income.

Income is irrelevant. Income has no bearing on VEL or insurance.

All I’m saying is, if you are paying that much for insurance, they’ve had your trousers down and are jiggling your balls on a builders trowel.

 

[flecc]

Interesting. I’m very supportive of the move to electric cars and will buy one in the not too distant future.

I’ve been away from this thread for a while and don’t have time to read what I’ve missed. Has anything been said about battery life? What range could be expected after 10 years or 100000 miles? Do those rapid DC chargers stress the battery? Is it better to charge them more gently over a longer period?

I’ve still got the original Panasonic battery from my 2008 Kalkhoff Pro-Connect. It still takes and holds a charge. It’s difficult to say the level of charge, but I’d estimate 25 to 30 % of when it was new. If I use the bike in minimum assist, the battery had a very useable range.

After 10 years some are claiming very little loss of range, but that's on the earlier batteries with maximum of 50 kW charging and lower mileages. The makers are getting ever more confident of good battery life, but from everything I've seen on this they probably aren't good enough yet for always charging at very high DC rates, daily for example.

Gentle charging is better for long life and that's why I do roughly every other charge from a 13 amp point at about 9.5 amps rate, though that is mollycoddling it and probably not necessary.
.

 

[Danidl]

I know all that about people with drives and who own a garage door. But there are many people in the U.K. who aren’t so lucky and would need to rely on street charging. It’s quite possible for there to be 100 cars parked on a street and only 10 lamp posts. What do the other 90 EV owners do whilst the lucky 10 charge theirs? Agreed the car probably only needs to be in charge 3 or 4 hours, but someone plugging theirs into a lamppost at 10:00 pm isn’t going to get up at 2:00 am and move their car so that another person can have a go.

Street charging infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the poor sods living in flats and houses with no garden.

Whether people living in flat complexes or don't have off road parking should even own cars is another debate. Why should the local community be paying for these peoples storage problem?... See I also can be illiberal. But actually there is a point. The newly appointed marketing manager for VW Global was suggesting something similar !.
His view That cars might not be owned, but rather supplied as a service . The service is transportation. And a person would rent the car by the hour or the mile . The car would be delivered on request and returned automatically.
I have a colleague, a more free thinking academic living locally and I would meet him by accident irregularly. He dispensed with his car years ago, and lives in a street fronted town house. Most of his local travel is Ebike ... An S type . But on weekends or whatever, he calls up a hire company and gets the car or van . No insurance , maintenance, depreciation concerns. Incidentally a keen ocean kayaker, so he would have been in all the wild areas.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Whether people living in flat complexes or don't have off road parking should even own cars is another debate. Why should the local community be paying for these peoples storage problem?... See I also can be illiberal. But actually there is a point. The newly appointed marketing manager for VW Global was suggesting something similar !.
His view That cars might not be owned, but rather supplied as a service . The service is transportation. And a person would rent the car by the hour or the mile . The car would be delivered on request and returned automatically.
I have a colleague, a more free thinking academic living locally and I would meet him by accident irregularly. He dispensed with his car years ago, and lives in a street fronted town house. Most of his local travel is Ebike ... An S type . But on weekends or whatever, he calls up a hire company and gets the car or van . No insurance , maintenance, depreciation concerns. Incidentally a keen ocean kayaker, so he would have been in all the wild areas.

I’ve been away for a while, but see things haven’t changed much.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Income is irrelevant. Income has no bearing on VEL or insurance.

All I’m saying is, if you are paying that much for insurance, they’ve had your trousers down and are jiggling your balls on a builders trowel.

You do have a worryingly detailed knowledge of builders trowels, balls and dropped trousers (for
an otherwise modest chap)

 

[jonathan.agnew]

After 10 years some are claiming very little loss of range, but that's on the earlier batteries with maximum of 50 kW charging and lower mileages. The makers are getting ever more confident of good battery life, but from everything I've seen on this they probably aren't good enough yet for always charging at very high DC rates, daily for example.

Gentle charging is better for long life and that's why I do roughly every other charge from a 13 amp point at about 9.5 amps rate, though that is mollycoddling it and probably not necessary.
.

Or buy a four or five year old tesla with an eight year guarantee on the battery (in the knowledge that stats say they last much longer than that)

 

[oyster]

The EU looks set to ban E171 (titanium dioxide) due to concerns it might causes cancer. France already banned it.

I do not know about our foods, but regarding medicines alone, from MHRA information it appears there are at least 8000 products which contain it. Numerous things like coatings used on many tablets contain small amounts so this number is not really surprising.

This could represent a major break in standards between EU and UK. Wih consequences which might ripple on for years.

(It is also possible that the proposed ban might not apply, for example, to topical products such as baby creams. Which would reduce the number of products affected.)

 

[flecc]

The EU looks set to ban E171 (titanium dioxide) due to concerns it might causes cancer. France already banned it.

I do not know about our foods, but regarding medicines alone, from MHRA information it appears there are at least 8000 products which contain it. Numerous things like coatings used on many tablets contain small amounts so this number is not really surprising.

This could represent a major break in standards between EU and UK. Wih consequences which might ripple on for years.

(It is also possible that the proposed ban might not apply, for example, to topical products such as baby creams. Which would reduce the number of products affected.)

Hopefully we'll follow, since it's solely a cosmetic whitener with no other value that I know of.

I wonder where this leaves the titanium staples sometimes used in internal surgery such as the many used to hold my inguinal hernia patch in place?
.

 

[oyster]

Hopefully we'll follow, since it's solely a cosmetic whitener with no other value that I know of.
.

I think you are right, and agree.

Not just cancer, but:

Impact of the Food Additive Titanium Dioxide (E171) on Gut Microbiota-Host Interaction
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2019.00057/full

 

[oldgroaner]

Guess the tabloid

 

[flecc]

Guess the tabloid

It'll be like the Icelandic cod wars again, the fishing boats will send the Royal Navy packing.
.