Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

With all respect, I expect that that headline is incorrect. I notice a number of preparations on that list, with which I am familiar. I suspect they are subject to special licence restrictions, rather than downright bans.

However, the fact that almost all the dates of restriction are during 2020 rather suggests that there was not a long-term restriction (though how many were dated with renewal of restriction dates, I cannot tell).

Remember, before January 2020 we were assured of huge stockpiles of medicines so there would be no brexit shortages...

 

[Zlatan]

As a frontline clinician in the nhs I find your attempt to gloss over excess deaths in the uk and this government complicity in it deeply offensive. And psychopathic. I hope you find this message as offensive as I mean it to be.

Think you owe Susan an apology.
She did nothing of the kind.
She argued against OG's stupid comment that "this lot culled people".
Since you work for NHS he owes you one as well. This lot is a lot of people.
Reading people's minds again Jonathon? Psychiatrist clinician or fortune teller.?

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't know why you bother.
Let those that inhibit this thread wallow in their anti right prejudice and left wing fantasies.
And to defend OG, he isn't the most offensive in here. That accolade belongs to Agnew.
OG seems to think either calling people idiots or that, I assume, the Govt are culling people isn't offensive. I think that represents a degree of mental instability on his part.
Just do what the majority of sensible posters do. Retire from this thread. It's pointless.

After all, the rhetoric in here is futile. This government is going nowhere for a long long time.
Attitudes in here are typical of those that have kept Labour out of contention. Shame but there you go.

"OG seems to think either calling people idiots or that, I assume, the Govt are culling people isn't offensive. I think that represents a degree of mental instability on his part."
Very kind of you to say that of course, sort of equates with calling people "idiots" when they are, don't you think?
Quite fun that you find no irony in describing me "suffering from mental instability"
yet object to me simplifying that statement to "idiot"?

It is a pity that telling the truth is interpreted as being offensive.
Remember the words of Aneurin Bevan
"Tell me your truth
and I'll tell you mine"
As to finding the use of the word "culling" offensive, perhaps you have a better description to offer what the government did?

According to Amnesty International
"
A series of “shockingly irresponsible” Government decisions put tens of thousands of older people’s lives at risk and led to multiple violations of care home residents’ human rights, said Amnesty International today, following an investigation by the human rights group’s Crisis Response team.

Amnesty’s 50-page report - As If Expendable: The UK Government’s Failure to Protect Older People in Care Homes during the COVID-19 Pandemic - shows that care home residents were effectively abandoned in the early stages of the pandemic.
I wonder what would better word exists to describe this atrocity than cull.
After all it effectively thinned out the numbers taking up needed hospital beds for Covid patients?
Which was what it was deliberately intended to do with utter disregard of the risk to them.

 

[oldgroaner]

However, the fact that almost all the dates of restriction are during 2020 rather suggests that there was not a long-term restriction (though how many were dated with renewal of restriction dates, I cannot tell).

Remember, before January 2020 we were assured of huge stockpiles of medicines so there would be no brexit shortages...

Odd that the Government document has not been updated when they would have a very good reason to do so, which rather implies the restrictions are current.

 

[oldgroaner]

Think you owe Susan an apology.
She did nothing of the kind.
She argued against OG's stupid comment that "this lot culled people".
Since you work for NHS he owes you one as well. This lot is a lot of people.
Reading people's minds again Jonathon? Psychiatrist clinician or fortune teller.?

You are doing your usual thing again! I didn't criticise the NHS did I?
For goodness sake read my comments don't change them as you do

Here you are find any reference to the NHS in my comments
Newly discovered, where this Government got it's inspiration from

With the exception that this lot ran a cull of the old in Nursing homes!

There simply isn't is there? as usual you made that up

 

[oldgroaner]

You can't let truth get in way of good propoganda Danidl.

Worse BAD propaganda and, people who have a permanent habit of not seeing what is in front of them.

 

[oldgroaner]

ou have insulted every single person slightly involved in fight against pandemic.

Actually I didn't but you have tacked them on for reasons of your own when I criticised the government directly

 

[oldgroaner]

With all respect, I expect that that headline is incorrect. I notice a number of preparations on that list, with which I am familiar. I suspect they are subject to special licence restrictions, rather than downright bans.

The link I provided is the official current UK Government Document
Updated 22 December 2020
Download CSV 9.4KB

 

[Woosh]

Why have a go at Zlatan? His comment is true and the groups mentioned are in fact irrelevant to the original premise that UK is culling people.
Perhaps you should question that statement first?
Nobody in any countries above or below UK have culled anyone. Except perhaps
in perverse left wing minds?

Objectivity.
Comparing the UK against Gibraltar for example is wrong on so many levels.
Some people would prefer a clear vision of black and white, right and wrong. However, that's not the world we live in.
Each situation needs to be analysed in an appropriate context.
My comment is meant to suggest to zlatan to refrain from quoting that particular league table as fact. If you/zlatan want to compare our death record against other countries, choose similar countries to compare ours with instead of San Marino, Bosnia, Hungary etc.

 

[oldgroaner]

As a frontline clinician in the nhs I find your attempt to gloss over excess deaths in the uk and this government complicity in it deeply offensive. And psychopathic. I hope you find this message as offensive as I mean it to be.

First, congratulation in achieving the top spot in unpopularity for telling the truth
In the words of IDS
"Wear it with pride as a badge of honour"

Memo to self: try harder!

 

[oldgroaner]

Why have a go at Zlatan? His comment is true and the groups mentioned are in fact irrelevant to the original premise that UK is culling people.
Perhaps you should question that statement first?
Nobody in any countries above or below UK have culled anyone. Except perhaps
in perverse left wing minds?

I have to wonder how "having a left wing mind" affects ones understanding?
Except perhaps to increase the level of understanding between right and wrong, and when one is being misinformed deliberately?
My mind unfortunately didn't come with wings, just the normal sticky out bits.

 

[oldgroaner]

Attitudes in here are typical of those that have kept Labour out of contention. Shame but there you go.

Fascinating idea, let's explore that
First question: what idea are you referring to?
Second: What Labour party?
Let's see now
Conservative party
Accepts money from Russian Donors and also "Friends of Israel"
Labour party
Oddly doesn't as far as we know accept money from Russian Sources
But also accepts money from "Friends of Israel"

The only Labour Politician who didn't was Corbyn
And look what happened to him

By the way I am not a fan of him at all.

So I ask again where is the Labour Party? who do either party actually owe allegiance to?

 

[Zlatan]

Objectivity.
Comparing the UK against Gibraltar for example is wrong on so many levels.
Some people would prefer a clear vision of black and white, right and wrong. However, that's not the world we live in.
Each situation needs to be analysed in an appropriate context.
My comment is meant to suggest to zlatan to refrain from quoting that particular league table as fact. If you/zlatan want to compare our death record against other countries, choose similar countries to compare ours with instead of San Marino, Bosnia, Hungary etc.

You are taking my comment completely out of context.
OG stated our country is culling certain members of society.
I pointed out if they are other countries with apparently worse death rates, by his argument, are doing same.
No countries are culling anyone with covid.
Perhaps if you spent more time examining OG's offensive statements than my use of data to refute a blatant irrational statement we might get a more informed debate than we have at moment.
OG's claim of Government (this lot could mean NHS, JCVI, Doctors etc) of culling people is same level of conspiracy as Polly and Chain ring denying covid exists, infact its far more offensive but as it plays into this threads general narrative objectivity goes out the window, until you want to quote it at me.
Bonkers.
So either be objective all the time Woosh or leave it out.
"this lot culling people" is as far removed from being objective as one can get... But it's OK from OG?
Some folk on here need to take a good look at what this thread has become.
OG continually insults, Agnew makes things up and then insults. Polly and Chainring and now OG put forward ridiculous conspiracy theories but garners your support. Well done.

 

[Zlatan]

France accuses UK of 'blackmail' over vaccine supplies

French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Europe would not let itself be subjected to "a kind of blackmail" by Britain over supplies of Covid-19 vaccines.

www.rte.ie

And in the mean time the EU's appalling behaviour has led to this. No doubt the anti Govt conspiracy theorists will support it.
Rather ironic, this could easily lead to a worse death rate in UK..

 

[jonathan.agnew]

You are taking my comment completely out of context.
OG stated our country is culling certain members of society.
I pointed out if they are other countries with apparently worse death rates, by his argument, are doing same.
No countries are culling anyone with covid.
Perhaps if you spent more time examining OG's offensive statements than my use of data to refute a blatant irrational statement we might get a more informed debate than we have at moment.
OG's claim of Government (this lot could mean NHS, JCVI, Doctors etc) of culling people is same level of conspiracy as Polly and Chain ring denying covid exists, infact its far more offensive but as it plays into this threads general narrative objectivity goes out the window, until you want to quote it at me.
Bonkers.
So either be objective all the time Woosh or leave it out.
"this lot culling people" is as far removed from being objective as one can get... But it's OK from OG?
Some folk on here need to take a good look at what this thread has become.
OG continually insults, Agnew makes things up and then insults. Polly and Chainring and now OG put forward ridiculous conspiracy theories but garners your support. Well done.

Chill brother, as chomsky said
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion

 

[Danidl]

France accuses UK of 'blackmail' over vaccine supplies

French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Europe would not let itself be subjected to "a kind of blackmail" by Britain over supplies of Covid-19 vaccines.

www.rte.ie

And in the mean time the EU's appalling behaviour has led to this. No doubt the anti Govt conspiracy theorists will support it.
Rather ironic, this could easily lead to a worse death rate in UK..

Yes it could.. In what universe is exporting 40 M doses of a vaccine 10M of them to a grasping country with never a word of thanks, viewed as appalling?. ..and that is just since February. And 71 M in total, since November. The UK was merrily vaccinating with EU Pfizer from end of November
Had the EU performed in a similar fashion to the UK, we would have twice as many of our citizens vaccinated , and the UK would be down by half.
But the other point you make is very true and valid. By failing to properly vaccinate, the UK is making the EU complicit in the possible propagation of mutant variants, from a large population of half assed vaccinations with the Pfizer. So essentially the EU is being blackmailed into continuing the UKs programme, or else risk new strains .
It is possible that a mixture of Pfizer followed by an AZ might be a wonderful combination...but we don't know that yet.

 

[Woosh]

So either be objective all the time Woosh or leave it out.

OK. I do try to stay objective all the time though and it's not a personal attack.
As I replied to Suzan, I picked on your quote simply because we are actually doing worse than comparable countries/economies because of BJ's poor choices so we should not be proud of our record.
On the subject of the AZ vaccine, I do not think it is inferior to the pfizer, they have different qualities. However, Pfizer, AZ, Moderna etc did not take a great deal of time to create. Some are created over the first weekend after the Chinese released the genome of Wuhan1. Where they made history is when they are given permission to deploy. They made a few scientists billionaires but heroes? Perhaps not quite. BJ was right on his unguarded comment...

 

[oldgroaner]

A little fun perchance

 

[oldgroaner]

]

OG stated our country is culling certain members of society.

How do you reach the weird conclusion that you do so consistently?
"OG stated our country is culling certain members of society. "
OG stated nothing of the sort, did he?

He accused the GOVERNMENT
And they are most definitely NOT this country
And how else would you describe what they did when even you wearing your Brexit Blinkers come have seen where emptying the elderly untested out of Hospitals into Nursing Homes would result in mass casualties of innocent people.

I shall employ your sort of logic and accuse you of regarding them as simply collateral damage done on the good old "The end justifies the means" principle
"It's a sacrifice the Government was prepared for the Pubic to make"

What does it take for you to face reality, not live in this right wing fantasy world?

 

[oldgroaner]

OG continually insults, Agnew makes things up and then insults. Polly and Chainring and now OG put forward ridiculous conspiracy theories but garners your support. Well done.

Lets put this into perspective OG always posts the truth as he sees it and makes justifiable claims where he perceives things being done wrongly
You are the one that uses any and all opportunities to launch into personal attacks on anyone you disagree with.
What the heck as "Conspiracy theories" to do with what the Government did with the Elderly?
Good grief, is this from Amnesty International a conspiracy theory then?
"
UK: Older people in care homes abandoned to die amid government failures during COVID-19 pandemic
It's not the case that it had been done by mistake or incompetence, but it wasn't
When you send hundreds of innocent old people from a place of relative safety and put them in harm's way resulting in mass deaths
Calling it a cull is being generous ,if China did that we have would have cried out and called it a far less pleasant name.

Try taking your own advice
"So either be objective all the time or leave it out. "
Even occasionally would be a vast improvement