Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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nobody disputes the benefit of spreading the stock of vaccine to more people. However, studies show that those who had the second jab have up to 4 times more antibodies than those with single jab.
Number of antibodies is not necessarily a good measure.

Might be the best we've got at this stage but that makes it even more difficult to make the optimum choices.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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I believe you reported this one.
The drug I provided link to is Allocetra. Similar story.
It seems they have found 2 drugs quite recently. Exo cd24 and Allocetra.??? Don't believe they are same..
Three.

Asthma drug may reduce risk of severe Covid if taken early – study
Inhaled budesonide could become first treatment in early stages of infection if study confirmed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/asthma-drug-budesonide-may-reduce-risk-severe-covid-if-taken-early-study

And, by gosh!, we can include the word "Oxford" when discussing it. The "Oxford steroid treatment". That fulfills the political requirement as well. :)

https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/research/patients/trials/stoic.aspx
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,157
30,573
And, by gosh!, we can include the word "Oxford" when discussing it. The "Oxford steroid treatment". That fulfills the political requirement as well. :)
Nah, I want a Cambridge vaccine.

It's all crap out of Oxford:

Boris Johnson, Theresa May, David Cameron, Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher, need I go on?

Oxford can't even row along the Thames without sinking.
.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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Winchester
I've added Israel to the the countries I look at regularly on the Covid stats. As I noted resterday, it is way ahead of any other country on cumulative number of vaccinations per person, but I now see it is also second only to Czechia on number of new cases per person (7 day average).

Does anyone know why this is? On the face of things it doesn't make vaccination look that effective. It may partly be down to more rigorous testing and thus actually finding and recording cases?


 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,157
30,573
I've added Israel to the the countries I look at regularly on the Covid stats. As I noted resterday, it is way ahead of any other country on cumulative number of vaccinations per person, but I now see it is also second only to Czechia on number of new cases per person (7 day average).

Does anyone know why this is? On the face of things it doesn't make vaccination look that effective. It may partly be down to more rigorous testing and thus actually finding and recording cases?
I think the tests are very unreliable and are recording very large numbers of false positives. As I've remarked elsewhere, the surface presence of the virus in the PCR test does not mean a person is infected, it merely means they were present in the air they breathed, but the test assumes they are infected.

Likewise I'm sure we are greatly over recording the number of deaths due to Covid, thanks to the silly 28 day rule and Covid being an easy cop out for the death certificate entry.

Yes the Covid pandemic is bad, but we are making it appear far worse then it really is. Ask around you if others know anyone who has died of Covid and you soon realise deaths are far more rare than the headlines make them seem.
.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Nah, I want a Cambridge vaccine.

It's all crap out of Oxford:

Boris Johnson, Theresa May, David Cameron, Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher, need I go on?

Oxford can't even row along the Thames without sinking.
.
Oxford keep talking about Isis. Very dodgy.

They should bring one from Cam out. Mind, use a Pozidriv screw and you all too often get cam out.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
I think the tests are very unreliable and are recording very large numbers of false positives.
I agree they are unreliable but not sure how many are false positive rather than false negative?

Someone I know, husband and son positive and suffering. She then had an uncertain result, repeat test was negative, she is now suffering Covid-19. (Very unpleasant but seems to be surviving.)
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Three.

Asthma drug may reduce risk of severe Covid if taken early – study
Inhaled budesonide could become first treatment in early stages of infection if study confirmed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/asthma-drug-budesonide-may-reduce-risk-severe-covid-if-taken-early-study

And, by gosh!, we can include the word "Oxford" when discussing it. The "Oxford steroid treatment". That fulfills the political requirement as well. :)

https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/research/patients/trials/stoic.aspx
Inexpensive really does appear to be true:

Pulmicort 100 Turbohaler (AstraZeneca UK Ltd)


Active ingredientsSizeUnitNHS indicative priceDrug tariffDrug tariff price
  • Budesonide 100 microgram per 1 dose
200 dose (POM) £14.25 Part VIIIA Category C£14.25

https://bnf.nice.org.uk/medicinal-forms/budesonide.html
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,157
30,573
I agree they are unreliable but not sure how many are false positive rather than false negative?
Trouble is that all the infected people carry on giving positives long after they've got rid of the infection. That's because the test reacts to the dead particles left after infection, not just to the live virus, so a second source of false positives as well as the surface presence one.
.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
Sobering thought:

Good morning, Amelia Hill here bringing you the thought-provoking news that the director of the Covid-19 Genomics UK consortium, Sharon Peacock, has just told the BBC that the coronavirus variant first found in the British region of Kent is likely to sweep around the world and the battle with the virus is going to go on for at least a decade.
The Kent variant has “swept the country” and “it’s going to sweep the world, in all probability,” the head of the UK’s genetic surveillance programme said, told the BBC.
“Once we get on top of [the virus] or it mutates itself out of being virulent - causing disease - then we can stop worrying about it. But I think, looking in the future, we’re going to be doing this for years. We’re still going to be doing this 10 years down the line, in my view.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/feb/11/coronavirus-live-news-two-masks-substantially-reduce-exposure-italy-to-reopen-ski-resorts
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Number of antibodies is not necessarily a good measure.
true, it's just one measure.
One TV doctor puts it, 'the vaccine moves the curve to the left' meaning the vaccine lessens the severity of the disease in a person. How much to the left depends on the concentration of antibodies, how much the original viral load is going to be neutralised or how ready the body is prepared to resist.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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This is what we’ve been saying since day one, set against the background noise of people on here shouting it down.
Careful your paranoia is showing. AZ make a very useful vaccine. Other health authorities around the world are delighted to have it. However some are more Prudent than in the UK and are stricting its use to those groups where the evidence is strong that it is effective and ensuring that it is applied in the manner which has been evidenced as being effective.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
20,333
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Southend on Sea
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Sobering thought:

Good morning, Amelia Hill here bringing you the thought-provoking news that the director of the Covid-19 Genomics UK consortium, Sharon Peacock, has just told the BBC that the coronavirus variant first found in the British region of Kent is likely to sweep around the world and the battle with the virus is going to go on for at least a decade.
The Kent variant has “swept the country” and “it’s going to sweep the world, in all probability,” the head of the UK’s genetic surveillance programme said, told the BBC.
“Once we get on top of [the virus] or it mutates itself out of being virulent - causing disease - then we can stop worrying about it. But I think, looking in the future, we’re going to be doing this for years. We’re still going to be doing this 10 years down the line, in my view.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/feb/11/coronavirus-live-news-two-masks-substantially-reduce-exposure-italy-to-reopen-ski-resorts
perhaps a little exaggerated.
In the next year or two, we'll see effective treatment against particular variants.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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At least she has grace to apologise.??
Did you hear what she said or are you going on hearsay ( The Daily Mail being a well regarded impartial source for EU matters .) I would like to think I reported what she said yesterday.?
She apologised without any equivocation about the confusion regarding the NI Protocol. She did not in any sense apologise for seeking to retain a pan European solidarity in vaccine rollout. She did not apologise,and was extremely clear in the matter of ensuring that full medical protocols were carried out before injecting active biological materials into healthy humans.. her medical training coming to the fore. And she did apologise for shortcomings in the supply chain , and their failure (EU) to anticipate bottlenecks.
 
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Danidl

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Trouble is that all the infected people carry on giving positives long after they've got rid of the infection. That's because the test reacts to the dead particles left after infection, not just to the live virus, so a second source of false positives as well as the surface presence one.
.
I came across one of those odd medical you tube videos which in its own way might explain some of the anomalies. It was dated a number of months ago, when people were trying to get a grip. In full autopsies carried out on known fatal victims . All had heavy doses of CV19 in their lungs, but 1/4 had none in their nasal cavity . So when they were alive, they would have been false negatives.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Inexpensive really does appear to be true:

Pulmicort 100 Turbohaler (AstraZeneca UK Ltd)


Active ingredientsSizeUnitNHS indicative priceDrug tariffDrug tariff price
  • Budesonide 100 microgram per 1 dose
200 dose (POM) £14.25 Part VIIIA Category C£14.25

https://bnf.nice.org.uk/medicinal-forms/budesonide.html
Unless it is a reverse correlation. And Asthma protects from CV19 and the inhaler is the indicator.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
All had heavy doses of CV19 in their lungs, but 1/4 had none in their nasal cavity .
Which is an interesting observation itself.

Suggests that just breathing does not emit sufficient viral particles to reach and remain in the nasal cavity. Maybe deep coughing does spread, whereas even sneezing doesn't?

Could mouth-breathing be a factor - whether it affects rate of transmission, rates of infection, how badly you suffer, or anything else!
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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nobody disputes the benefit of spreading the stock of vaccine to more people. However, studies show that those who had the second jab have up to 4 times more antibodies than those with single jab.
If you have 30 millions doses (roughly what we would have until end of April), would you use them on 30 millions people or 15 millions of the most vulnerable?
It's a matter of political judgement.
What we criticise is government propaganda, pushing for single jabs while discretely give second jabs to Pfizer receivers.
The US CDC said that those who are properly vaccinated do not have to quarantine if coming into contact with someone who has covid.
The only point I quibble here is "It's a matter of political judgement". It should be a matter of medical/ clinical research judgement and then political decision
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
Unless it is a reverse correlation. And Asthma protects from CV19 and the inhaler is the indicator.
Not all asthmatics get steroid-based medications. Some get by on, for example, ventolin or whatever alone.

I'd expect checking that would be reasonably straightforward?
 
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