Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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Zlatan

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Daughter made a good point this morning.
Had she had 2nd jab on time chances are symptoms would have been so mild she wouldn't have had a test, would have carried on working, kids going to nursery etc, and probably spreading infection. As it is symptoms have been very mild but enough to get tested..and isolate.
I wonder if after more have had 2nd jab we might see a surge in cases until enough of population have had jab to bring infection rate down again?? Vaccination rate must slow around now to start getting 2nd jabs in arms???
We are at around 22% of population.

There was an argument put forward test and trace system only worked for those with symptoms bad enough to isolate. ie they stayed indoors whilst ill.???
If we don't know vaccination prevents transmission it could be a problem.
I suspect we will see a surge in cases 3 weeks after significant numbers have had 2nd jab.
 
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Woosh

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Daughter made a good point this morning.
Had she had 2nd jab on time chances are symptoms would have been so mild she wouldn't have had a test, would have carried on working, kids going to nursery etc, and probably spreading infection. As it is symptoms have been very mild but enough to get tested..and isolate.
I wonder if after more have had 2nd jab we might see a surge in cases until enough of population have had jab to bring infection rate down again?? Vaccination rate must slow around now to start getting 2nd jabs in arms???
We are at around 22% of population.

There was an argument put forward test and trace system only worked for those with symptoms bad enough to isolate. ie they stayed indoors whilst ill.???
If we don't know vaccination prevents transmission it could be a problem.
I suspect we will see a surge in cases 3 weeks after significant numbers have had 2nd jab.
Maybe the nasal spray version of vaccine would be a good alternative for the second jab and regular booster.

new cases drop by half every 2 weeks, currently at 18k a day, in a month, that would be 5k a day, by middle of April, it would be 1k a day. Life would get back to normal then.
 

flecc

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Maybe the nasal spray version of vaccine would be a good alternative for the second jab and regular booster.

new cases drop by half every 2 weeks, currently at 18k a day, in a month, that would be 5k a day, by middle of April, it would be 1k a day. Life would get back to normal then.
I like the idea of that, but I'm not so confident the reduction would be that quick since there's still so many variables. We don't even know how long lasting the various vaccine protections are, nor how each will perform with the extended gaps between first and second doses and of course the weather trend has an influence.

And the biggest danger is as ever the public and whether they stick to the precautions with Bojo talking about them being able to go on holiday this summer and all the kids back in school very shortly. It could very quickly seem to them that Covid has vanished.
.
 

oldgroaner

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Daughter made a good point this morning.
Had she had 2nd jab on time chances are symptoms would have been so mild she wouldn't have had a test, would have carried on working, kids going to nursery etc, and probably spreading infection. As it is symptoms have been very mild but enough to get tested..and isolate.
I wonder if after more have had 2nd jab we might see a surge in cases until enough of population have had jab to bring infection rate down again?? Vaccination rate must slow around now to start getting 2nd jabs in arms???
We are at around 22% of population.

There was an argument put forward test and trace system only worked for those with symptoms bad enough to isolate. ie they stayed indoors whilst ill.???
If we don't know vaccination prevents transmission it could be a problem.
I suspect we will see a surge in cases 3 weeks after significant numbers have had 2nd jab.
On the BBC this morning they were saying that the government is considering reducing the interval to the second dose to 6 weeks
And yet there are no released figures of surveillance that they must have been carrying out on post first jab patients.
On the basis of the Israeli experience there must have been some casualties by now...
Unless of course that God of theirs has transferred his largesse to us ;)
 
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Jesus H Christ

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On the BBC this morning they were saying that the government is considering reducing the interval to the second dose to 6 weeks
And yet there are no released figures of surveillance that they must have been carrying out on post first jab patients.
On the basis of the Israeli experience there must have been some casualties by now...
Unless of course that God of theirs has transferred his largesse to us ;)
One option could be that no one has become seriously ill after being vaccinated.
 
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Zlatan

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On the BBC this morning they were saying that the government is considering reducing the interval to the second dose to 6 weeks
And yet there are no released figures of surveillance that they must have been carrying out on post first jab patients.
On the basis of the Israeli experience there must have been some casualties by now...
Unless of course that God of theirs has transferred his largesse to us ;)
I think they will. Once the initial roll out has got going the time delay becomes less important to getting through everybody. We need to conduct around 80 million jabs, getting that task completed fully is irrelevant to delay between first and second. I do think there is a case for delaying second tho, folk are much more likely to be more cautious and not mix during the wait...
To be honest, speaking with daughter this morning (zoom) you wouldn't know she was ill. Having that first jab put my mind much more at ease.
I was also wondering if being exposed to virus during your wait has any effect towards improving your immune response? Would it count as your second jab????
 

flecc

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Isn't that strange, why the different instructions, the message on the box is
ONE to be taken in the MORNING before breakfast
Note: CAPS as on the box!
The variations between individuals can often change when medicines should be taken

One of my two when taken at the normal times and dosages has actually made me dangerously ill times, even at risk of death through heart attack, but taken at a very different time and in a very different dosage to normal nearly does what it should do.

Changing the second medication from the normal morning recommendation to the same time as the first completes the job, keeping me well currently.

But these have changed over the years, what works best now is very different to what worked best in earlier years, the difference being my deterioration with age.
.
 
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Zlatan

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The variations between individuals can often change when medicines should be taken

One of my two when taken at the normal times and dosages has actually makes me dangerously ill times, even at risk of death through heart attack, but taken at a very different time and in a very different dosage to normal nearly does what it should do.

Changing the second medication from the normal morning recommendation to the same time as the first conmpletes the job, keeping me well currently.

But these have changed over the years, what works best now is very different to what worked best in earlier years, the difference being my deterioration with age.
.
I used to take all mine in morning,but they can make me feel lethargic... (nothing new) I changed to taking at 9pm,sleep better. Had a chat with the one that knows and he said whichever you wish but keep it constant.. Much prefer new regime. More active in day...
 
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oyster

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Isn't that strange, why the different instructions, the message on the box is
ONE to be taken in the MORNING before breakfast
Note: CAPS as on the box!
They know not of what they speak.

There has never been research which has demonstrated that they should be taken in the morning. It was simply an assumption. Based, at least partly, on the wrong-headed idea that it acts like a stimulant - a strong cup of coffee!

There have been several research papers in the past fifteen years which have shown bed-time to be a perfectly acceptable alternative.

Further, some people have found marginally better absorption from bed-time dosing rather than morning. Maybe equivalent to 12.5 to 25 micrograms change of dose.

Because I was aware, I positively chose bed-time for my convenience. And pretty much the first bit of symptom relief was sleeping better. Though I know it is not universal - some seem to find bed-time dosing doesn't work for them.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I like the idea of that, but I'm not so confident the reduction would be that quick since there's still so many variables. We don't even know how long lasting the various vaccine protections are, nor how each will perform with the extended gaps between first and second doses
I'd no sooner posted that cautionary note than the bad news started coming in on the news.

The AZ scientists have confirmed that their vaccine only offers limited protection against very mild cases of the South African variant that's here now, and that concurs with what the other vaccine makers have found too. They are working on toughening it up and hope to achieve that by the Autumn, but of course that's no use to all of us who've already had the current version or all those getting jabbed thoughout the Spring and Summer, which will be most of the population by the Autumn.

So now is certainly not a good time to relax our precautions.

They are also expressing stronger thoughts now that an annual vaccine may be needed to cope with continuing variants and that we might have to live permanently with Covid.
.
 
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oldgroaner

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One option could be that no one has become seriously ill after being vaccinated.
Possibly,but the Israeli experience suggests otherwise the odds are against it it's much more likely that the figures are not being released to avoid panicking the public and making them biased against one of The Vaccines in preference to the other
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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They know not of what they speak.

There has never been research which has demonstrated that they should be taken in the morning. It was simply an assumption. Based, at least partly, on the wrong-headed idea that it acts like a stimulant - a strong cup of coffee!

There have been several research papers in the past fifteen years which have shown bed-time to be a perfectly acceptable alternative.

Further, some people have found marginally better absorption from bed-time dosing rather than morning. Maybe equivalent to 12.5 to 25 micrograms change of dose.

Because I was aware, I positively chose bed-time for my convenience. And pretty much the first bit of symptom relief was sleeping better. Though I know it is not universal - some seem to find bed-time dosing doesn't work for them.
Thank you for that insight it might be worth considering as my wife is not a very good sleeper which means in turn I'm not
 
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oyster

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Thank you for that insight it might be worth considering as my wife is not a very good sleeper which means in turn I'm not
I think I have heard of just about every imaginable regime of dosing. Most end up as you are, morning before breakfast. But a number do find bed-time preferable. Especially those who cannot wait for their morning drinks and breakfast.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32022947/
 
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