Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I once agreed with him on something, we were both wrong...

There's an old saying that covers that
"The man who never made any mistakes
Never actually did anything much"

But it's a huge irony to face criticism from JHC, who managed not merely the master stroke of voting for Brexit
But turned the nation into a basket case by voting for his bank balance in the hope Boris would spare it!

There's a moral there somewhere, something about leaving thinking to those with an operational brain.
There is also a brighter note here, now he has retired, there is no danger of him passing overhead, so I feel much safer with that decision making ability no longer airborne

 

[oldgroaner]

There is a rumour circulating that he knows his arse from his elbow, but it is just a rumour.

You shouldn't believe in rumours, you could end up voting Conservative again

 

[oldgroaner]

But OG thinks same, they must be right. There isn't anything our friend from Hull doesn't know.

Can I quote you on that?
Gosh thanks

 

[Danidl]

...... and there are those who think they understand statistics, misinterpret statistics and then **** everything up.

Oxford University has done extensive research, tests involving thousands of people and compiled masses of data. Some of the country’s best statisticians have analysed that data and it has be shared for independent corroboration. All agree that this vaccine gives a very high level of protection from serious illness and death. It has then been reviewed by the U.K. licensing authority, who also agree with the other two.

It is totally preposterous that a ridiculous leprechaun with a proven track record of frequent mistakes should appear on a bicycle forum and try to cast doubt on the vaccine effectiveness. Pretend that he’s identified a statistical trend which has escaped some of the best minds in this field The same applies to the vicious oily french pigmy’s attempts to undermine confidence.

It’s really important to win over people who are nervous or sceptical about vaccination. The leprechaun’s showboating and the pigmy’s antics work against this object.

So, you are being a knob-head. Stop.

I have made no adverse comment at any stage against ANY of the vaccines. The only comment I every made is regarding their performance is in recommending adhering to the researchers published guidelines . Now a gracious apology would be acceptable, but I do expect I should not hold my breath waiting.

 

[oldgroaner]

I have made no adverse comment at any stage against ANY of the vaccines. The only comment I every made is regarding their performance is in recommending adhering to the researchers published guidelines . Now a gracious apology would be acceptable, but I do expect I should not hold my breath waiting.

Absolutely, when you are debating with a man who believes touring in France is best done in the lead tank of an armoured column

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I have made no adverse comment at any stage against ANY of the vaccines. The only comment I every made is regarding their performance is in recommending adhering to the researchers published guidelines . Now a gracious apology would be acceptable, but I do expect I should not hold my breath waiting.

Regrettably, I’m going to put you on a yellow card. Any further anti-Oxford vax and it will be a Red. I will convene a meeting of the forum Executive Committee so that your case can be considered. If a decision is taken to apply a sanction, you will be notified in writing within five working days.

flecc, old groaner, Zlatan are you free next week to consider danidl’s case? I have beetle drive on Tuesday, bingo on Thursday and I usually go to my grandmas for tea on a Friday. Any other time is good for me.

 

[oldgroaner]

Professor Bell is a Canadian Bell.

Most actually fled to the USA and Canada when the king burned down our stronghold, ejected us from Scotland for being "unruly"
I mean what sort of an idiot describes "Rieving" as unruly?
And banned us from ever having a Clan Chief in perpetuity.
The rest of us drifted down into Yorkshire as we still regard north of the Humber as Scotland.
There is in fact still an internet presence of "The Bell Clan" as a worldwide society devoted to charitable courses.

As you may have gathered the Bells believe charity begins at home

 

[oldgroaner]

Regrettably, I’m going to put you on a yellow card. I will convene a meeting of the forum Executive Committee so that your case can be considered. If a decision is taken to apply a sanction, you will be notified in writing within five working days.

flecc, old groaner, Zlatan are you free next week to consider danidl’s case? I have beetle drive on Tuesday, bingo on Thursday and I usually go to my grandmas for tea on a Friday. Any other time is good for me.

I'm not free, but as always very reasonable..
You may find that inviting me to any meeting is probably not terribly wise, or so my old MD used to say bless him.

 

[oyster]

Round here there are several llamas, alpacas or whatever precise variant! Makes a very pleasant change to sheep. I read of some research but interesting to read this:

In the search for Covid protection, Cormac the 'extremely charismatic' llama may hold a key
The llama has provided nanobodies that effectively prevent infection, but the use of other species in Covid research raises troubling ethical questions
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/in-the-search-for-covid-protection-cormac-the-extremely-charismatic-llama-may-hold-a-key

 

[Zlatan]

Regrettably, I’m going to put you on a yellow card. Any further anti-Oxford vax and it will be a Red. I will convene a meeting of the forum Executive Committee so that your case can be considered. If a decision is taken to apply a sanction, you will be notified in writing within five working days.

flecc, old groaner, Zlatan are you free next week to consider danidl’s case? I have beetle drive on Tuesday, bingo on Thursday and I usually go to my grandmas for tea on a Friday. Any other time is good for me.

Afraid I, m busy all week so just email me all details and I, ll return a" guilty as charged "verdict once I, ve studied all the evidence thoroughly...

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Afraid I, m busy all week so just email me all details and I, ll return a" guilty as charged "verdict once I, ve studied all the evidence thoroughly...

Cheers Zlatan, I’ll get Elaine to send your people the case file on Monday. He‘s bang to rights, I’m happy for you to find him guilty without seeing any evidence if that works for you?

 

[oldgroaner]

Cheers Zlatan, I’ll get Elaine to send your people the case file on Monday. He‘s bang to rights, I’m happy for you to find him guilty without seeing any evidence if that works for you?

Well, it always has so far, so why not this time?

 

[oldgroaner]

Round here there are several llamas, alpacas or whatever precise variant! Makes a very pleasant change to sheep. I read of some research but interesting to read this:

In the search for Covid protection, Cormac the 'extremely charismatic' llama may hold a key
The llama has provided nanobodies that effectively prevent infection, but the use of other species in Covid research raises troubling ethical questions
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/in-the-search-for-covid-protection-cormac-the-extremely-charismatic-llama-may-hold-a-key

Hang on a bit, how come they had no ethical problems using chimpanzees?

 

[oldgroaner]

Interesting..

So as usual the government has gone for the least efficient, cheapest option, then half done the job in vaccinating the people, and still placed orders for the least effective vaccine??
It would have been better from the point of a government taking action in panic mode that this sort of information wasn't available, imagine what will happen if the public start to feel they are being short changed.
And what will the Government do with the huge excess numbers of doses?
The supply companies should be asking themselves how long before they find themselves with a lot of cancelled orders
Especially as now the government is controlling exports of other drugs essential to treat Covid patients
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-export-boris-johnson/

And yet joins in the clamour to attack the EU for them daring to threaten the same thing, while quietly doing it themselves

 

[oyster]

The supply companies should be asking themselves how long before they find themselves with a lot of cancelled orders

All depends if we have to pay whether we take the doses or not. The suppliers could end up re-selling to other customers and doing very nicely, thank you.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Interesting..

So as usual the government has gone for the least efficient, cheapest option, then half done the job in vaccinating the people, and still placed orders for the least effective vaccine??
It would have been better from the point of a government taking action in panic mode that this sort of information wasn't available, imagine what will happen if the public start to feel they are being short changed.
And what will the Government do with the huge excess numbers of doses?
The supply companies should be asking themselves how long before they find themselves with a lot of cancelled orders
Especially as now the government is controlling exports of other drugs essential to treat Covid patients
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-export-boris-johnson/

And yet joins in the clamour to attack the EU for them daring to threaten the same thing, while quietly doing it themselves

The orders were placed before anyone knew if the vaccine would be effective or how effective it would be. That had to be done, no option. Other countries we’re starting to place advance orders and if the government had delayed, we would have been further down the queue facing a vaccine shortage, like many EU countries. Fortunately, nearly all the vaccines our government reviewed and put faith in have turned out to be winners, hence the over supply. It could easily have gone the other way. They did a good job here.

Your ridiculous comments regarding going for the cheapest are just that, ridiculous. The AZ vaccine is a British invention, so it’s only right to back something developed in your own back yard. Unlike other countries, the U.K. realise that as many people on the planet need vaccine as possible, hence the AZ vaccine is a not for profit product. This makes it cheaper than vaccine produced by other countries / companies who seek to profit from Coronavirus.

The U.K. will have more vaccine than it needs, and the government has signalled an intent to give away the surplus to other nations that need it or can’t afford it. All geared towards vaccinating as many people as possible. We may even end up giving some to France and rightly so.

The AZ may be slightly less effective at blocking symptoms, if unlucky you may develop a sniffle, but it is at least equal to anything else in terms of keeping you alive and out of hospital. Those two factors are 99.99% of the objective. So it’s a winner.

I’ll say the same to you as I did to the Leprechaun. There is a large number of people who are either sceptical or nervous about vaccination. We need them to take it or else the point of you or I being vaccinated is diminished.

Posting the twisted hate filled sort of bull $hit you have done above contributes nothing. It’s incorrect, it’s dangerous and it is silly. I personally know many people who are giving up large amounts of their time and taking some level of personal risk volunteering at vaccination centres. Your spite filled ant-British garbage is undermining those people, others like them, the NHS and the people who developed vaccines.

If you want to vent whatever pent up anti-U.K. frustrations you harbour, find another topic and stay off vaccination. You are injuring people.

The U.K. is doing well with it’s vaccination efforts and it’s the only way out of this hole. Show some support.

 

[oyster]

The orders were placed before anyone knew if the vaccine would be effective or how effective it would be.

We still don't really know.

We have pre-launch trial information.

We have some post-launch statistics.

We have reports of side effects. And if you do need to report anything, there is a special page for doing so:

Coronavirus Yellow Card reporting site
Report suspected side effects to medicines, vaccines or medical device and diagnostic adverse incidents used in coronavirus treatment to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency to ensure safe and effective use
https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

But we do not have sufficient information about long term protection, possible long term side effects, efficacy against further likely mutations, effect of using two or more different vaccines, etc.

We could find the How effective column requires major changes. The costs should include not only the vaccine but the delivery. Two shots obviously costing around double to deliver. Possible requirement for boosters (whether the same vaccine or an "updated" version) will also impact costs.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

We still don't really know.

We have pre-launch trial information.

We have some post-launch statistics.

We have reports of side effects. And if you do need to report anything, there is a special page for doing so:

Coronavirus Yellow Card reporting site
Report suspected side effects to medicines, vaccines or medical device and diagnostic adverse incidents used in coronavirus treatment to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency to ensure safe and effective use
https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

But we do not have sufficient information about long term protection, possible long term side effects, efficacy against further likely mutations, effect of using two or more different vaccines, etc.

We could find the How effective column requires major changes. The costs should include not only the vaccine but the delivery. Two shots obviously costing around double to deliver. Possible requirement for boosters (whether the same vaccine or an "updated" version) will also impact costs.

All of that applies equally to all the new Covid-19 vaccine. We are in the early stages of large scale inoculation, so a clearer picture will develop over time.

I believe the very rare side effects are confined to the Pfizer vaccine. I’m hearing that with the AZ product there is no reports of reaction, in fact you are allowed to leave immediately after the jab.

I am perfectly content to receive whatever vaccine product is available at the time of my appointment. I’m also happy to extend the interval to the second dose if it means another person can receive a level of protection they otherwise would not have had.

We need to cut out all of the amateur commentary on vaccine effectiveness that’s starting to creep onto these pages. Groaner with his snippets from Communist’s Weekly is a danger.

 

[oyster]

All of that applies equally to all the new Covid-19 vaccine. We are in the early stages of large scale inoculation, so a clearer picture will develop over time.

Quite - that was my point. There is no proper basis for assessment of relative efficacy or costs - yet.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Quite - that was my point. There is no proper basis for assessment of relative efficacy or costs - yet.

We can only work with the best information we have at the time when the decision needs to be made.