Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

As part of the great vaccination effort, a near neighbour who retired as a GP 18 months ago, has volunteered to stab people with a syringe. He’s been told that he needs to do a Safeguarding course, a hazardous materials handling course, a Diversity Awareness course and a practical session on the use of fire extinguishers. How are we going to get enough people vaccinating the population with these obstacles in place? Who thinks up this kind of nonsense and who sanctions it?

Diversity Awareness ffs, what’s he expected to do, take the knee as he shoved a needle into someone’s black ass? Come to think of it, kneeling might help in those circumstances.

Gotta make a joke here
"Nobody is going to inject me with a Fire Extinguisher,
I know my rights!"

 

[oyster]

Gotta make a joke here
"Nobody is going to inject me with a Fire Extinguisher,
I know my rights!"

Could result in much foaming at the mouth.

 

[oyster]

I think it is now time to close this thread... . Deal done ,for better or worse.

Only pro tem with respect to the EU. I think target is currently 28/02/2021.

 

[Zlatan]

Even the government seems unable to summon up much optimism.

Perhaps we need the NHS to provide optimism injections for everyone?

Folk on here wouldn't have it..
"Optimism, shove that"

 

[oldgroaner]

UK economy to outstrip Europe over next 15 years

New global ranking lifts Brexit hopes with forecast that GDP in Britain will be 23pc more than in France by 2035

www.telegraph.co.uk

Not forgetting this one. OG will be frothing at mouth soon and not with coffee..

Lets see now this nonsense is from PricewaterhouseCoopers, which is an Anglo-American multinational professional services network of firms
So what? just another load of over optimistic BS

 

[oldgroaner]

That's same with all reporting. Gary Neville said United would never get in top 4, they sit second and he still prattles on. OG and every link he, s supplied over last four years has said we, d be bankrupt, rioting in streets etc etc... None of that materialised....
Then somebody says something optimistic and all of a sudden "accountability" is shouted. Of course its a prediction. Just like the Guardian's article is opinion. I know its not the done thing on here to show any form of optimism but thought since it's New Year's Day I might get away with it. Seems not. Light at end of tunnel has been extinguished or perhaps some are blind.

I did not say rioting in the street I suggested there is a possibility of Civil Unrest, not before this date but after? is your memory failing again?
The light at the end of the tunnel is the start of the campaign to regain what fools have squandered with Brexit, it has not so far actually been any more than casting the country adrift in a very cold sea with no welcome shore or rescue in sight.
And that is all Little Englanders fault.
Then of course would you have us believe this government has Covid 19 under control, or test and trace, or the supply and delivery of vaccines to point of need?

Some Tunnel
Some light

 

[oyster]

Lets see now this nonsense is from PricewaterhouseCoopers, which is an Anglo-American multinational professional services network of firms
So what? just another load of over optimistic BS

Is that the PwC whose partners are taking a 10% pay cut?
The same PwC thrown out as auditors of BooHoo?
The same PwC that had an 8% fall in profits last year (before Covid)?
The same PwC in a major bust up over London Stadium and their responsibility?
The same PwC being sued over unethical practices in Botswana?

Obviously we should take every crumb of "information" that falls from their table. Then search hard to find out who let it fall and what their aims were.

 

[oldgroaner]

Could result in much foaming at the mouth.

And other orifices tooooo!

 

[Zlatan]

Case proved melud..
Perhaps we should use same scrutiny for all sources.
"keep your optimism".???

 

[oldgroaner]

Is that the PwC whose partners are taking a 10% pay cut?
The same PwC thrown out as auditors of BooHoo?
The same PwC that had an 8% fall in profits last year (before Covid)?
The same PwC in a major bust up over London Stadium and their responsibility?
The same PwC being sued over unethical practices in Botswana?

Obviously we should take every crumb of "information" that falls from their table. Then search hard to find out who let it fall and what their aims were.

Indeed it is, and they have the credibility of the same order that Mad Max Minford commands

 

[oldgroaner]

Is that the PwC whose partners are taking a 10% pay cut?
The same PwC thrown out as auditors of BooHoo?
The same PwC that had an 8% fall in profits last year (before Covid)?
The same PwC in a major bust up over London Stadium and their responsibility?
The same PwC being sued over unethical practices in Botswana?

Obviously we should take every crumb of "information" that falls from their table. Then search hard to find out who let it fall and what their aims were.

Obviously they are lining themselves up in case Boris feels like "Spaffing" a few million their way for some vague reason or other.

 

[Woosh]

The left must stop mourning Brexit – and start seeing its huge potential | Larry Elliott

Those who predict economic Armageddon ignore the reality. The status quo wasn’t working, says the Guardian’s economics editor, Larry Elliott

www.theguardian.com

What's this, optimism in the Guardian. And a sensible headline. What a start to 2021..

his argument is ridiculous.
He puts up the case of fruit farmers and assumes that they will have to hire British fruit pickers at higher wages therefore boost the economy.
Firstly, if wages of seasonal fruit pickers does go up, it affects only a tiny number and seasonal workers at that. Next, farmers will just apply for short term work visas for those whom they want to hire from abroad.
If t's the best he can do then it's insignificant in GDP term.
Countries form trading blocs to reduce the cost of doing business. On automotives, the net margin is less than 6% but the sums are very high so its effect on GDP is substantial. If the cost of doing business adds another 1%, that may be enough for the business to disinvest in the UK.
That will hurt our GDP.
At the scale of the country GDP, big businesses are the key in the long term. The jury is still out but I reckon brexit will hurt GDP.

 

[oyster]

his argument is ridiculous.
He puts up the case of fruit farmers and assumes that they will have to hire British fruit pickers at higher wages therefore boost the economy.
Firstly, if wages of seasonal fruit pickers does go up, it affects only a tiny number and seasonal workers at that. Next, farmers will just apply for short term work visas for those whom they want to hire from abroad.
If t's the best he can do then it's insignificant in GDP term.
Countries form trading blocs to reduce the cost of doing business. On automotives, the net margin is less than 6% but the sums are very high so its effect on GDP is substantial. If the cost of doing business adds another 1%, that may be enough for the business to disinvest in the UK.
That will hurt our GDP.
At the scale of the country GDP, big businesses are the key in the long term. The jury is still out but I reckon brexit will hurt GDP.

At some level we need agreements with those around us. Whether that is across the whole EU, each EU member, each constituent of the UK, each county (or region or whatever), why, even each parish if you will.

We can't avoid this need. But if it is set at the lowest level, you'll hardly be able to go out of your front door without switching rules.

It is a matter of trying to achieve the widest possible agreement yet at the same time allowing local divergences as needed. An eternal task, yes, but one worth working towards.

 

[oldgroaner]

First the good news
Brexit fans will be delighted to learn that cross channel traffic levels are not exceptional

Ah, but
""A German software company that monitors real-time data on freight traffic for more than 100,000 logistics providers says that a 'dramatic number' of forwarders have declined to take cargo into the UK in the past fortnight, despite having already agreed contracts."

I think we aught to send someone like Gove over to tell them to
"stop crying and move on, we want our glorious uplands"

 

[Zlatan]

his argument is ridiculous.
He puts up the case of fruit farmers and assumes that they will have to hire British fruit pickers at higher wages therefore boost the economy.
Firstly, if wages of seasonal fruit pickers does go up, it affects only a tiny number and seasonal workers at that. Next, farmers will just apply for short term work visas for those whom they want to hire from abroad.
If t's the best he can do then it's insignificant in GDP term.
Countries form trading blocs to reduce the cost of doing business. On automotives, the net margin is less than 6% but the sums are very high so its effect on GDP is substantial. If the cost of doing business adds another 1%, that may be enough for the business to disinvest in the UK.
That will hurt our GDP.
At the scale of the country GDP, big businesses are the key in the long term. The jury is still out but I reckon brexit will hurt GDP.

Its not ridiculous at all. If fruit pickers have to rely on foreign slave labour to survive, something is wrong.
Always amazes me that all these so called socialists, crying out for good wages, good conditions etc etc, for all (perfectly reasonable) then want to keep a situation where only reason folk are employed is for low wages, poor working conditions and practices that encourage Gig economy.
You want us to be able to pay crap wages to poor Romanians so that we can have cheap fruit?? If I was running a business that could not afford to pay decent pay with fair conditions and some semblance of security for its workers I, d expect it to fail. You want it to succeed on exploitation of whoever is desperate enough to take the poor wages. It should be stopped and will be out the EU. Rightly so.
Farmers struggle getting locals to work for them because they demand better pay and conditions, in mean time your farmers just get richer. I, ve never met a poor one yet. Farmers pay fair wages.? No chance, until they must. That doesn't sound like socialism to me.And EU openly promote this exploitation.???

Margaret Thatcher would be proud of EU stance. In 80s,given chance, she'd have filled mines with cheap East European labour. The Unions had fought for years to get good pay in pits,should they also be manned by cheapest possible workforce so owners can be more profitable, not worry about HS etc etc. You are arguing for a Tory practice.

 

[Zlatan]

Obviously they are lining themselves up in case Boris feels like "Spaffing" a few million their way for some vague reason or other.

We were not discussing their morals, which have no bearing on accuracy of their predictions.
All your predictions have long since fallen by wayside. (all of them)

 

[Woosh]

Its not ridiculous at all. If fruit pickers have to rely on foreign slave labour to survive, something is wrong.

that's not the case.
EU workers were protected by the same EU laws and ours.
Sure, there is a market, if there is less supply of EU fruit pickers then wages will have to go up and farmers will have to take on our own casual workers but as I said, farmers will just apply for short term working visas.
There won't be any hike in wages.

Always amazes me that all these so called socialists, crying out for good wages, good conditions etc etc, for all (perfectly reasonable) then want to keep a situation where only reason folk are employed is for low wages, poor working conditions and practices that encourage Gig economy.
You want us to be able to pay crap wages to poor Romanians so that we can have cheap fruit?? If I was running a business that could not afford to pay decent pay with fair conditions and some semblance of security for its workers I, d expect it to fail. You want it to succeed on exploitation of whoever is desperate enough to take the poor wages. It should be stopped and will be out the EU. Rightly so.
Farmers struggle getting locals to work for them because they demand better pay and conditions, in mean time your farmers just get richer. I, ve never met a poor one yet. Farmers pay fair wages.? No chance, until they must. That doesn't sound like socialism to me.And EU openly promote this exploitation.???

No. I am not a socialist nor a capitalist. I want our young people to get off the playstations and do more physical work.
But our GDP won't be affected by the future of fruitpickers, that's why I found the writer's argument ridiculous.
The EU gave us a stable and level environment to develop our economy for 48 years.
All the brexiters wanted is a race to the bottom: deregulation, devaluation, house price inflation and reducing public services.
Just compare the state of our roads against Spanish and French roads that you know well. Same goes for heath care, the environment and public spaces.
I hope that now brexit is done, people will think again before voting for that lot back to government in 2024.

 

[oyster]

Just compare the state of our roads against Spanish and French roads that you know well. Same goes for heath care, the environment and public spaces.

There can be much discussion, even argument, about roads in Wales, but there have been massive improvements, often substantially funded by EU sources, over the past few decades.

I have often thought some roads here actually feel more like some French roads to drive along than many English roads I used to use regularly.

For all sorts of reasons, this county seems to have surprisingly good roads. Go north or east, you notice them worsen at the county edges. Last I looked, we even had not one single bridge which required work to be strong enough to take expected traffic. (Some counties had hundreds.)

 

[Nev]

Diversity Awareness ffs, what’s he expected to do, take the knee as he shoved a needle into someone’s black ass? Come to think of it, kneeling might help in those circumstances.

Good to see it's the same Barry we know and love

 

[oldgroaner]

At some level we need agreements with those around us. Whether that is across the whole EU, each EU member, each constituent of the UK, each county (or region or whatever), why, even each parish if you will.

We can't avoid this need. But if it is set at the lowest level, you'll hardly be able to go out of your front door without switching rules.

It is a matter of trying to achieve the widest possible agreement yet at the same time allowing local divergences as needed. An eternal task, yes, but one worth working towards.

What we have in the FTA is simply the negotiations continuing in the background out of the public view so the Government can attempt to correct the balls up it's made without people noticing or any scrutiny by parliament.

We used to have one of those but by voting for Brexit decided we preferred rule by politicians owned lobby group bribes from foreign countries instead
Pity that, it has already bitten us in the backside