Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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I've no idea what Osborne has said, so how can it influence me?

I toild you a long time ago what my opinions on this issue are based on, and in no way are they formed by any of the commentators you mention. That's because I don't and won't read and absorb what they have to say.

Your mistake is that you do read them and are so obviously influenced by their opinions.

My opinions on this issue really are entirely my own since they are based on actual events that I've witnessed at first hand.
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Sorry flecc that is completely impossible.
You base predictions for a future event ( if it happens) that has never happened in past.??? You need a crystal ball to do that.
And by the way, you initiated this thread after listening to a radio programme claiming to offer facts which have since proved incorrect. Our poor attempts at predicting without listening to those in a better position than ourselves has ,and to an extent is, part of the problem. How many posting on here assume to know more about economics than Peter Hargreaves, more about fiscal predictions than Mervyn King ??
I,m claiming neither, just offering their thoughts as a positive attitude towards Brexit. Its so easy( but damaging) to be continually negative..which is about 95% of posts on here.

And by the way King said leaving would give us a challenge, its also stating obvious staying in presents us with the same but with fewer opportunities and more commitments. Based on reading various financial reports and investment predictions.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
Sort flecc that is completely impossible.
You base predictions for a future event ( if it happens) that has never happened in past.??? You need a crystal ball to do that.
No crystal ball needed, only a thorough knowledge of our past performances and failures in all the relevant areas and the knowledge that this country has not changed in any really material way since then.

Leopards don't change their spots.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
And by the way, you initiated this thread after listening to a radio programme claiming to offer facts which have since proved incorrect.
I did nothing of the sort and frankly I'm sick of you willfully misrepresenting me in your responses.

I initiated this thread with a programme that spelled out factual situations that had already happened. I made no predictions in that post.

Those situations were history so cannot have been proved incorrect, they'd already happened. That's why they were facts as the thread title said.
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Nonesense again flecc.

I wonder how many are sick of the dismissal of any supporting brexit. I certainly am.
Folk who blatantly know more about finances and fiscal matters than the entire group posting on here are just dismissed at a whim.
I,m sick of the negativity. I,m sick of the provarication. caused by such as on here.
We,ve voted, we decided on June 23rd.

We should be out by now.
 

Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
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North Staffs
He's just the opposition flecc, opposing everything.

Someone on here did ask for an opposing view.

As it's said, be careful what you ask for.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Old Groaner , yes I agree ,it is mostly in perfect taste.

The subject is a cause of vexation for both leavers and remainers.

I voted remain, but we have a democratic decision and must all now work for what is best for the UK.
The EU is unstable ,and could dissolve into disparate factions.

The UK government are already talking to potentially large international business partners,and I truly hope it should end up to our advantage.
What is the point of talking shop when you have nothing to sell that cant be had for less and better from elsewhere?
There is a complete lack of realism about our capabilities: what have we got to sell that we make that is either unique or cheap?
Alas the UK is also unstable and frankly in danger from social unrest if the public do not see an improvement in their situation, but the rich are doing very nicely thank you.
Brexit was actually intended as a warning shot across the Bows, but the government chose to see it as a chance to make the Elite richer and screw the poor.
Since there can not be a good outcome from this situation it is clearly heading at flank speed for an iceberg, and we have dumped the few lifeboats we had already.
And as I just posted clowns like Minford actually want us to run down and destroy what little industry we have and export dreams?
Why should this work out to the advantage of more than a handful of rogues and swindlers and actually improve the situation of the poor?
It simply cannot do so not matter how hard we hope it will.
Democratic Decisions have to be based on the truth not a pack of lies otherwise they are simply a confidence trick and not serving the public interest.
And the Referendum was after all not legally binding anyway.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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He's just the opposition flecc, opposing everything.

Someone on here did ask for an opposing view.

As it's said, be careful what you ask for.
Ha! I stand guilty as charged, but be fair I didn't ask for
An opposing view
That opposed itself

Which "Whatever it is I'm against it" does regularly (if not continually) and only rarely posts within the Moon's orbit of being on topic.
On the only occasion I can recall that happening, I offered my congratulations.
I just asked for a rational argument from someone apart from tillson in favour of Brexit who could assemble cogent points.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Nonesense again flecc.

I wonder how many are sick of the dismissal of any supporting brexit. I certainly am.
Folk who blatantly know more about finances and fiscal matters than the entire group posting on here are just dismissed at a whim.
I,m sick of the negativity. I,m sick of the provarication. caused by such as on here.
We,ve voted, we decided on June 23rd.

We should be out by now.
Occasionally Zlatan quite unintentionally misuses English and accidentally reveals the truth
"Folk who Blatantly know more about Finances, etc,"

adjective: Blatant
brazenly obvious; flagrant:
a blatant error in simple addition; a blatant lie.
tastelessly conspicuous:

patently was the word he sought but failed to find.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc and robdon

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
He's just the opposition flecc, opposing everything.

Someone on here did ask for an opposing view.

As it's said, be careful what you ask for.
Good post Croxden.
I assume King, Hargreaves, Minfford, Lyons ;Hill and any media willing to say something positive about Brexit are also the opposition. I,m only recounting views of those I know know far more than any posting on here..but then again they are only the views of ex Governor General BoE, probably our most renowned Stock Broker,and 3 top economists??? Why listen to them , they must be stupid ,they think Brexit will be good for UK !!!
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
We,ve voted, we decided on June 23rd.

We should be out by now.
Having established by misrepresentation that you cannot understand what others post, you went on to post that the proven historic facts in a radio program were shown to be wrong, an obvious impossibility.

Now as a Brexit supporter you show by saying "we should be out by now" a complete failure to understand how a country is able to leave the EU.

It's impossible for us to be out by now, short of making ourselves a country which no other country will ever trust again.
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The troll seems to imagine that economics is a science with a history of demonstrable, proven, bench-test results.

If economics has anything to do with science or logic, how is QE explained? Why is it ok for the UK, for example, to just create from nothing, billions of extra pounds to pump into the economy without any devaluation of the currency? Any answer would be very welcome in Athens, Lisbon, Rome and Dublin, I'm sure.

In any event, a look round many High Streets across the country will demonstrate that all is not well with the economy even this early after the referendum. Apart from a few recently-opened Xmas shops which will close in the next fortnight, the trend over the last few months has been shop closures on an almost unprecedented scale. This trend has gone unreported by the mainstream media, no doubt after consultation with tory central office.

OG, flecc and KD have repeatedly drawn attention to the very real problems Britain will face once we get past all the bluff and bluster from the pro-Brexit brigade about how we will suddenly become amazingly successful as an international, free-trade champion, putting to shame the EU with all its bureaucracy and convoluted trade deals.

The reality is that of all the goods and commodities we produce, very little is likely to be found attractive to customers elsewhere when they can acquire the same products cheaper and of equal or better quality elsewhere. To believe, even for a moment, that we have sufficient JCB or JLR sales to sustain the economy is sheer madness. The rest of the world will most certainly not be falling over each other to rush out and purchase Dyson vacuums, fans or hand-dryers. We won't be selling much steel, coal or anything else come to that, so how do economists suggest we will earn our crust post-Brexit?

Do they imagine that the 27 remaining EU sovereign states will be happy to see London as the main financial trading centre for inter-European transactions and our bacon will therefore be saved by the City of London banking geniuses? While we seek customers for the little we actually produce for export, prices for imported goods will climb steadily - that's a given!

Sadly, as I have said from the outset, 'Brexit' was never about economics but was always about racism - a far-right grouping of tory extremists, created to drag votes away from democratic socialist parties, going under the acronym of UKIP and thus ensuring a tory majority in parliament for years to come - just look around at the fringe groups associated with the monsters of UKIP. These people are haters of all foreigners wishing to settle and make a life in the UK, even though every study of immigrant populations settled in the UK has shown that their work ethic is strong and there is little reliance on welfare.

Unfortunately, the tens of thousands of overt racists and the hundreds of thousands of others who are equally as hateful but in denial, cannot bring themselves to accept that these incomers benefit our society. Nor can they understand that our NHS is hugely dependent on people of foreign extraction. What would the British sports scene be like without immigrants - football, athletics, cricket and rugby all have fairly high levels of foreign-born competitors today, not to mention the managers and coaches who are mostly foreign, at the highest level?

The economic issues that Brexidiots cling to as justification for their cause have all been demolished over the last six months yet the lunatics are still intent on dragging the country from the prosperity of Europe into some muddy backwater where only the rich will survive intact and that will be at the expense of the poor.

This little scene tells a story:

15665961_1734799590169914_6404519653995838123_n.jpg

Tom
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
For a while I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm now certain he is nothing other than an internet troll.
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Yes ofcourse. Folk who disagree with accepted opinion on this site must be trolls..better than racist and xenophobic I suppose but equally predictable. Thought you had more sense Flecc.


And yes,in the new pedantic atmosphere, we should have triggered Article 50 by now, obviously we could not have left yet..

It simply amazed me that some seem to be able to completely dismiss one side of an argument, in some self righteous attitude thinking they know more than others whoo have spent their entire lives in economics and being successful in it. Like flecc actually knows even 10% as much as Mervyn King about prospects for UK outside EU ...its ridiculous. Then calling a poster a troll for putting forward his reasoning is at best desperate and at worst arrogant...
Peter Hargreaves and Mervyn King might be wrong....but who would you bet on. Those two or 2 faced lying Osborne.
I,d put mine with Hargreaves..
Seems many on here just ignore the people who have been working in finances all their lives and back a politician. Who,s the fool?

Biggest trick Osborne achieved was making fools think they had arrived at remain vote independently. They have not. Remain has been conned way more than leave,they just fail to realise it. Its the epitome of a clever con.
8000 plus posts regurgitating the same spin proves it.

And to put it in perspective..
In his last 5 years in office Osborne with all his fiscal care and support of Cameron and eu doubled our national debt.

In Hargreaves last 5 years as MD of HL floated his company on stock market. The company in those 5 years became biggest private financial institution in UK, earning UK billions ,attracting overseas investment in record amounts and earning both the country and its clients billions of pounds. You listen to Osborne. I,ll read Hargreaves.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Yes ofcourse. Folk who disagree with accepted opinion on this site must be trolls..better than racist and xenophobic I suppose but equally predictable. Thought you had more sense Flecc.


And yes,in the new pedantic atmosphere, we should have triggered Article 50 by now, obviously we could not have left yet..

It simply amazed me that some seem to be able to completely dismiss one side of an argument, in some self righteous attitude thinking they know more than others whoo have spent their entire lives in economics and being successful in it. Like flecc actually knows even 10% as much as Mervyn King about prospects for UK outside EU ...its ridiculous. Then calling a poster a troll for putting forward his reasoning is at best desperate and at worst arrogant...
Peter Hargreaves and Mervyn King might be wrong....but who would you bet on. Those two or 2 faced lying Osborne.
I,d put mine with Hargreaves..
Seems many on here just ignore the people who have been working in finances all their lives and back a politician. Who,s the fool?

Biggest trick Osborne achieved was making fools think they had arrived at remain vote independently. They have not. Remain has been conned way more than leave,they just fail to realise it. Its the epitome of a clever con.
8000 plus posts regurgitating the same spin proves it.

And to put it in perspective..
In his last 5 years in office Osborne with all his fiscal care and support of Cameron and eu doubled our national debt.

In Hargreaves last 5 years as MD of HL floated his company on stock market. The company in those 5 years became biggest private financial institution in UK, earning UK billions ,attracting overseas investment in record amounts and earning both the country and its clients billions of pounds. You listen to Osborne. I,ll read Hargreaves.
Round and round as usual completely off topic, just repeating circular arguments that are nothing more than cut and paste propaganda.
And in every case Money, Money, money and an utter lack of interest in the social consequences of the pursuit of profit.
A lesson for all to remember is that Society is intended to protect the weak from the Strong, not the other way round.
Fools know the cost of everything and the Value of nothing, and disrupt other peoples lies in the pursuit of personal greed.
A morbid interest in greed rather than concern for the well being of the population is simply a sign of a weak individual of limited intellect, and a danger to the future of the nation.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
It's impossible for us to be out by now, short of making ourselves a country which no other country will ever trust again.
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For starters there are 27 that already don't...
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Whilst all this debate has been going on on here Italy has been quietly verging on bankruptcy. Hardly a mention on here, yet it highlights one of main reasons for leaving. Italy's third biggest bank could not raise 4.8 billion euro.( that's like a house hold not being able to raise a few hundred quid). Government have stepped in ( 2 weeks after last one stepped out) and handed over 20 billion euro...so what all remainers ate asking. Well whilst in EU we are guarantors ( collectively for Portugal,Italy, Greece and Spain)
Our costs as a major contributor would be colossal. Its exactly why EU wants our presence.
We are talking trillions in help !!! Will dwarf losses or gains with trade deals.
Zlatan.....not sure where you get the 'trillions in help' if this bank defaults....we are not part of the euro,thank god,some of our banks may have some exposure but in banking terms it will be minor.
Please do your homework before posting otherwise it disturbs the credibility of the forum....if you don't know you can always pose the thought as a question,there are some very knowledgable contributors to the forum.
I notice Mervyn King has now joined the 'we are going to leave to grasp trade opportunities outside the EU,but not one of these Leaving experts ever say where these lucrative trade deals will come from?
Trade deals with China and India will be easy to achieve,provided we don't mind taking more visa free immigrants from those countries and accept all the cheap goods they will dump on us,what can we sell them?
KudosDave
 

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