Brexit, for once some facts.

[RossG]

Yes that's because by then people would have twigged they were conned with the first one.

 

[Wicky]

There's a lot of dick waving going on but once any of these cases are standing in front of a judge ALL the lawyers say well um...no we aren't actually alleging fraud....

All talk and no substance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/trump-lawyers-suffer-embarrassing-rebukes-judges-over-voter-fraud-claims/

By now, it’s well-established that most of the arguments put forward by President Trump’s reelection campaign in its challenge of the results of the 2020 election are baseless and highly speculative.

Even Trump allies, as The Washington Post reported late Tuesday, acknowledge the apparent futility of the effort. Others have reasoned that there’s no harm in going through the motions, with one anonymous GOP official asking, “What’s the downside for humoring him” for a little while?

But as scenes in courtrooms nationwide in recent days have shown, there is indeed a downside for those tasked with pursuing these claims. Repeatedly now, they have been rebuked by judges for how thin their arguments have been.

The most famous scene came in Pennsylvania, where a Trump lawyer strained to avoid acknowledging that their people were, in fact, allowed to observe the vote-counting process in Philadelphia....

After that “nonzero” answer, Diamond pressed the Trump campaign lawyer to be more explicit — and he suggestively invoked their standing with the bar: “I’m asking you as a member of the bar of this court: Are people representing the plaintiffs in the room?” The lawyer responded more directly: “Yes.” By the end of the hearing, Diamond invoked his right to make sure lawyers in his courtroom acted in good faith....

Another Trump lawyer, Jonathan S. Goldstein, was also grilled by a Pennsylvania judge this week. Under questioning, he acknowledged that, contrary to Trump’s claims about rampant voter fraud, he wasn’t alleging fraud in the 592 ballots he sought to disqualify in Montgomery County, Pa.

Again, Trump’s lawyer strained to avoid directly answering the question but was ultimately forced to acknowledge it....

The Trump campaign also sought to temporarily stop counting some ballots in Detroit. It cited a GOP poll watcher who had said she had been told by an unidentified person that late mail ballots were being predated to before Election Day, so they would be considered valid.

The judge repeatedly asserted this was hearsay, but Trump campaign lawyer Thor Hearne sought to argue that it wasn’t — despite it having been someone who said they heard about something they weren’t personally involved in. He pointed to a vague note the poll watcher produced — which said “entered receive date as 11/2/20 on 11/4/20” — as evidence....

In a later written decision, Stephens slammed the argument as “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.” And after the campaign appealed, Stephens rebuked it Monday for not including required documentation.

“I regret to inform you that your submission is defective,” Stephens said....

Another of the Trump team’s claims crumbled rather quickly in Georgia.

In Chatham County, as in Michigan, the Trump campaign cited supposed evidence that 53 late ballots may have been predated so they could be counted. Except two witnesses they called acknowledged under oath that they didn’t know whether the ballots were received after the deadline. And two others for the local board of elections testified that they were, in fact, received on time.

Judge James Bass dismissed the case in a one-sentence, eight-word ruling, saying, “I’m denying the request and dismissing the petition”

The common thread running through all of these is that Trump’s lawyers are regularly offering a significantly more watered-down version of Trump’s claims about rampant voter fraud — because they, unlike Trump, have to substantiate their claims. And as these exchanges show, it’s a rather thankless task that can quickly land them on a judge’s bad side.

 

[Nev]

I missed the first part of a radio interview with someone this morning so I don't know who the person being interviewed was, but they were comparing the cost of distributing the Oxford vaccine (assuming its safe and effective) with the cost of distributing the Pfizer vaccine. The person said that the Pfizer vaccine would be up to 10 times more expensive than the Oxford vaccine to get it to people. I have no idea if this is an accurate figure or not, does anyone else know if this might be a ball park figure.

I have just read the piece linked below about using a vaccine that might not be as good as the Pfizer vaccine in the interests of speed, but if what the person above said on the radio is correct, then might the real reason for not using the Pfizer vaccine be the cost of distributing it?

Speed trumps efficacy in UK's Covid vaccine rollouts, says adviser

Jonathan Van-Tam says less effective vaccine may be used if that is what is available

www.theguardian.com

 

[vfr400]

Linky?

I can't find it now. It was on twitter I think. It was extremely detailed with 100s of lines- one for each county in each state with exact numbers down to the last digit. I don't know the basis to it except the story said that computer specialists used some sort of script to check the results.

Regardless of that, something big is going down shortly. The Trump side seems to be getting very excited and happy.

 

[vfr400]

There's a lot of dick waving going on but once any of these cases are standing in front of a judge ALL the lawyers say well um...no we aren't actually alleging fraud....

All talk and no substance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/trump-lawyers-suffer-embarrassing-rebukes-judges-over-voter-fraud-claims/

I keep telling you that you can't believe these stories that you read in the MSM. They choose facts very carefully and carefully omit facts that show the whole story. Anyway, of course those particular lawyers aren't alleging fraud, but the people they're representing are. Already there are 500 sworn affidavits, which has gone up by 300 since yesterday. Tomorrow, there will be hundreds more, especially when you can get $25,000 for grassing up your neighbour or workmate. 2,000 people have come forward so far, and that number is gathering momentum too.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Another referendum would certainly have reversed Brexit into Remain, which is why the Brexiters were so terrified of us having one to make the the result a clearer one.
.

I think you are right and I would have certainly voted remain in a second referendum, but something doesn’t quite sit right with having multiple votes until the desired outcome is achieved. When would we have the third vote?

The biggest mistake was Cameron’s in agreeing to the referendum in the first place. It unleashed an unstoppable & destructive sequence of events.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

I keep telling you that you can't believe these stories that you read in the MSM. They choose facts very carefully and carefully omit facts that show the whole story. Anyway, of course those particular lawyers aren't alleging fraud, but the people they're representing are. Already there are 500 sworn affidavits, which has gone up by 300 since yesterday. Tomorrow, there will be hundreds more, especially when you can get $25,000 for grassing up your neighbour or workmate. 2,000 people have come forward so far, and that number is gathering momentum too.

$25K! That sounds a bit dangerous. People will make things up for that kind of cheese.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

BREAKING NEWS. A bloke I’ve never heard of has quit a government job that I didn’t know existed!

 

[Danidl]

Recants?
RECANTS?
He did no such thing, he made a sworn affadivit and stands by every word.

"Hours after House Democrats announced that a Pennsylvania postal worker had recanted allegations of ballot tampering, the mail carrier denied it, saying that he stands by his original statement and that he “got played” by federal investigators.
Richard Hopkins, a mail carrier in Erie, Pennsylvania, said in videos released Tuesday by Project Veritas that he never intended to recant his claims of possible ballot fraud after being grilled by investigators from the U.S. Postal Service Office of Inspector General.
“I am right at this very moment looking at an article written by the Washington Post. It says that I fabricated the allegations of ballot tampering,” Mr. Hopkins said in a video posted on Twitter. “I am here to say that I did not recant my statements. That did not happen. That is not what happened.”
Project Veritas chief legal counsel Jered Ede accused the investigators of coercing Mr. Hopkins into signing an affidavit recanting his claims; failing to give him access to his attorney, and refusing to provide him with a copy of the signed document.

“It was coerced,” Mr. Ede told the Washington Times. “They forced him to execute this watered-down lukewarm affidavit. They did so during an interrogation where again they denied him the opportunity to be represented by counsel even though he confirmed with them that he had counsel.”

Unknown to the federal investigators, Mr. Hopkins was wearing a wire during the interview provided by Project Veritas based on his concerns about being harassed at work by supervisors or union officials.

RECORDING: Federal agents “coerce” USPS whistleblower Hopkins to water down story. Hopkins doubles down…

Agent Strasser: “I am trying to twist you a little bit”

“I am scaring you here”…” we have Senators involved…DOJ involved…reason they called me is to try to harness.”

Project Veritas president James O’Keefe released a snippet of the exchange Tuesday in which a man identified as a USPS OIG investigator said that “this storm is getting crazy,” and that “the reason they called me in is to try to harness that storm, to try to reel it back in before it gets really crazy.”

Said Mr. Hopkins: “They were grilling the hell out of me. I feel like I just got played.”

His comments came after the House Oversight Committee tweeted Tuesday that Mr. Hopkins had “completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators,” citing the Office of Inspector General.

The investigators “informed Committee staff today that they interviewed Hopkins on Friday, but that Hopkins RECANTED HIS ALLEGATIONS yesterday and did not explain why he signed a false affidavit,” tweeted the committee.


Mr. Hopkins said last week he was told to collect late mail-in ballots, and that he overheard his supervisor, Erie postmaster Robert Weisenbach, talk about backdating them to make it appear that the late ballots were received on Nov. 3.

Mr. Weisenbach has denied the allegations, calling them “100% false.”

Mr. Hopkins initially came forward last week as an anonymous whistle-blower with Project Veritas before revealing his identity in an affidavit, which was provided by the Trump campaign and released Saturday by Sen. Lindsey Graham, South Carolina Republican.


Mr. Ede said that the federal investigators refused to give Mr. Hopkins a copy of the document he had signed.


“He asked multiple times, can I have a copy of what you’re having me sign? They refused, even now, even after they have leaked to Congress and the Washington Post what he supposedly said in that signed statement,” Mr. Ede said.


He alleged that the federal investigator was “a fixer sent in to one job and one job only, and that is to come out with a recanting of the allegations, and he didn’t leave until he had it.”


“This is banana-republic, Soviet-era truth suppression tactics like I’ve never seen before,” Mr. Ede added.


A Project Veritas spokesperson said the group plans to release Wednesday more audio from the federal interview with Mr. Hopkins.


Mr. Hopkins said he did not believe the federal agents who interrogated him were interested in investigating alleged election fraud.


“Honestly, I don’t think they are,” he said.


Mr. Hopkins‘ eyewitness account of organized ballot tampering in Pennsylvania is among a flood of voter fraud allegations in several states.

It will be very interesting when and if this get before a judge. Particularly since GoP Go fund me groups have given him 136K and counting.

 

[vfr400]

BREAKING NEWS. A bloke I’ve never heard of has quit a government job that I didn’t know existed!

Fake news. It was the bloke's brother that quit, not the bloke.

 

[oyster]

BREAKING NEWS. A bloke I’ve never heard of has quit a government job that I didn’t know existed!

There are many occasions I am glad I do not work at number 10, or anywhere near. (Not that any of them would want me, of course!) This is an event which reinforces that.

What a bloody mess.

And just what has Carrie got to do with it?

Lee Cain: PM's senior aide resigns amid infighting at No 10
Boris Johnson had offered the current director of communications the chief of staff role, sparking protests

A row broke out at the heart of Downing Street tonight as one of Boris Johnson’s most senior aides – and a close ally of Dominic Cummings - quit amid bitter infighting.

Lee Cain stepped down after ministers and advisers including Johnson’s fiancee, Carrie Symonds, are said to have protested over his promotion to chief of staff.

The resignation appears to reflect internal turmoil and dysfunction in No 10 at a time when the UK surpassed 50,000 deaths from the coronavirus, according to official figures.

Critics of the government have repeatedly cited how tensions between senior members of Johnson’s team – and his refusal to sack Cummings, his chief adviser, earlier this year – have hindered the country’s efforts to get on top of the pandemic.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/11/lee-cain-pms-senior-aide-resigns-amid-infighting-at-no-10

 

[flecc]

I think you are right and I would have certainly voted remain in a second referendum, but something doesn’t quite sit right with having multiple votes until the desired outcome is achieved.

I wouldn't have held a second referendum on that basis, but would have on the grounds of the extensive and blatant dishonesty of the Leave campaign.
.

 

[oyster]

I think you are right and I would have certainly voted remain in a second referendum, but something doesn’t quite sit right with having multiple votes until the desired outcome is achieved. When would we have the third vote?

The biggest mistake was Cameron’s in agreeing to the referendum in the first place. It unleashed an unstoppable & destructive sequence of events.

I think multiple votes should have been the plan. First to agree to work out what the options are. Second to choose among them with many details having to be presented. Third to confirm. Or something like that.

 

[Wicky]

Already there are 500 sworn affidavits, which has gone up by 300 since yesterday.

Chaff

Behind which he's using the time stringing out dubious legal avenues to stuff his loyalists into the DoD though I wouldn't expect the military to support his coup attempt but white supremacy militia groups like the Proud Boys he put on standby could kick off as his armed brown shirts - but what concerns me most is will Melania bother to put up the usual megalomaniacal kitsch crimbo decorations in the White House with all the chaos going on and with so little time left - maybe a tree covered in shiney chaff and baubles will be the theme to cover their exit...

 

[oyster]

Chaff

Behind which he's using the time stringing out dubious legal avenues to stuff his loyalists into the DoD though I wouldn't expect the military to support his coup attempt but white supremacy militia groups like the Proud Boys he put on standby could kick off as his armed brown shirts - but what concerns me most is will Melania bother to put up the usual megalomaniacal kitsch crimbo decorations in the White House with all the chaos going on and with so little time left - maybe a tree covered in shiney chaff and baubles will be the theme to cover their exit...

She barely fulfilled the brief last year...

 

[Wicky]

 

[oyster]

Couldn't help...

I'm not a trolley pusher, I'm a trolley pusher's son
I'm only pushing trolleys 'till the trolley pusher comes.

 

[vfr400]

Chaff

Behind which he's using the time stringing out dubious legal avenues to stuff his loyalists into the DoD though I wouldn't expect the military to support his coup attempt but white supremacy militia groups like the Proud Boys he put on standby could kick off as his armed brown shirts - but what concerns me most is will Melania bother to put up the usual megalomaniacal kitsch crimbo decorations in the White House with all the chaos going on and with so little time left - maybe a tree covered in shiney chaff and baubles will be the theme to cover their exit...

Some authoritative sources are saying that the vote won't count for jack sh¦t because the decision is going to end up in the house of Representatives, who will vote in Trump because they have 31 Republicans vs 19 Dems, and all that's legal and in accordance with the constitution. That will happen if the votes in the dodgy states are found to be unreliable, so get cancelled when it ends up in the Supreme Court. The President only normally gets elected if he/she gets past 270. If neither gets 270, it goes to the House of representatives to decide. I've got a feeling that there's going to be a lot of wailing in the not too distant future.

 

[mike killay]

Some authoritative sources are saying that the vote won't count for jack sh¦t because the decision is going to end up in the house of Representatives, who will vote in Trump because they have 31 Republicans vs 19 Dems, and all that's legal and in accordance with the constitution. That will happen if the votes in the dodgy states are found to be unreliable, so get cancelled when it ends up in the Supreme Court. The President only normally gets elected if he/she gets past 270. If neither gets 270, it goes to the House of representatives to decide. I've got a feeling that there's going to be a lot of wailing in the not too distant future.

North Carolina has gone to Trump.

 

[RossG]

It's the people who vote in the next President vfr not any committee thank God. Biden is still increasing his lead overall and is now 14000 votes ahead at GA. and poised to select his new Chief of Staff as early as tomorrow.
Looks like a winner to me.