Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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OK. That's a very common (dare I say popularist) view of DT. My question as ever for people who take that stance is this: How do you explain why pretty much 50% of the US population thinks the guy is OK? Without resorting to saying they're all stupid or brainwashed etc.

I am reminded of Hitchen's classic:

"You give me the awful impression of somebody who has never studied the arguments against your position"

What is it that people like about him? Because on the face of it - sure - he's a total baffoon.

Very few people have given me any decent answers to this question btw.
Sometimes his main appeal would appear to be "He's not ...."

Fill in the blanks with whichever other candidate(s) are currently being demonised.
 

oyster

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Media outlets in the US are putting in place plans to counter act Trump declaring victory before many of the postal votes have been counted.
I have been wondering what the US military have been putting in place.

I suspect an awful lot of them are as unhappy with Trump as most of the rest of the world. They might feel they have to protect the country despite POTUS being commander in chief. (Funny how he can take on that military role despite heel spurs.)
 
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Barry Shittpeas

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Of course. But the question contains a fallacy. If the probability is 1/10 of event one and of 1/10 of event 2 then the probability of both events is 1/100. IF Predicted in advance of either event. Now if event 1 has occurred, it is now a certainty, so the probability of event 2 is 1/10. . And finally if predicted before any event, the probability of Either .. is 2/10.

Forget that, this is far more important:

Suppose you're on a game show, and you're given the choice of three doors: Behind one door is a car; behind the others, goats. You pick a door, say No. 1, and the host, who knows what's behind the doors, opens another door, say No. 3, which has a goat. He then says to you, "Do you want to pick door No. 2?" Is it to your advantage to switch your choice?
 
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Woosh

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Pick No 2.
if you don't switch, your chance of winning the car is between 1/3 and 1/2.
Door No2 gives a little better statistical chance, 1/2.
I use this strategy quite often to plan for new bikes.
 

flecc

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What is it that people like about him? Because on the face of it - sure - he's a total baffoon.

Very few people have given me any decent answers to this question btw.
It's because he speaks their language, inevitable because the people who like him as the politican they want are also total buffoons on the face of it.

We have a similar situation in this country with our own pet clown, Boris Johnson.
.
 
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vfr400

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Have a look at this. It looks fairly legit to me. There's too much detail for somebody to make it up. You can see the detail in their planning at the end of the vid:
 
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sjpt

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Of course. But the question contains a fallacy. If the probability is 1/10 of event one and of 1/10 of event 2 then the probability of both events is 1/100. IF Predicted in advance of either event. Now if event 1 has occurred, it is now a certainty, so the probability of event 2 is 1/10. . And finally if predicted before any event, the probability of Either .. is 2/10.
If they are not independent then after event 1 has occurred a responsive system might change its prediction of event 2; depending on known details of the inter-dependence.

If they are independent the probability of either is 19/100. The 2/10 does not allow for the 1/100 probability of both.
 
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Woosh

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in election polls, the results of previous election are used to adjust the weighting of the dataset - so the accuracy should improve compared to previous elections.

In Clinton / Trump, the poll predictions were:

chance of winning: 71.4% / 28.6%. Real result: Trump won.
electoral votes: 302/235, real result: 227/304
popular votes: 48.5%/44.9%, real result: 62,523,126/61,201,031 votes or 48%/47%

Trump's share of popular votes were 2.1% more than polls predicted.

Current projections:
chance of winning: Biden / Trump: 90%/10%.
electoral votes: Biden / Trump: 348/190
popular votes: 53.4%/45.4%

even if Trump's share of popular votes is 2%-3% more than polls predicted, he still won't win.
 
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Danidl

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OK. That's a very common (dare I say popularist) view of DT. My question as ever for people who take that stance is this: How do you explain why pretty much 50% of the US population thinks the guy is OK? Without resorting to saying they're all stupid or brainwashed etc.

I am reminded of Hitchen's classic:

"You give me the awful impression of somebody who has never studied the arguments against your position"

What is it that people like about him? Because on the face of it - sure - he's a total baffoon.

Very few people have given me any decent answers to this question btw.
It is more like35% to 40% of the US population at most. Which I do find astonishing.
 
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Barry Shittpeas

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in election polls, the results of previous election are used to adjust the weighting of the dataset - so the accuracy should improve compared to previous elections.

In Clinton / Trump, the poll predictions were:

chance of winning: 71.4% / 28.6%. Real result: Trump won.
electoral votes: 302/235, real result: 227/304
popular votes: 48.5%/44.9%, real result: 62,523,126/61,201,031 votes or 48%/47%

Trump's share of popular votes were 2.1% more than polls predicted.

Current projections:
chance of winning: Biden / Trump: 90%/10%.
electoral votes: Biden / Trump: 348/190
popular votes: 53.4%/45.4%

even if Trump's share of popular votes is 2%-3% more than polls predicted, he still won't win.
The problem with polls is this:

If you ask a person who it is that they intend to vote for, by saying, “Trump” you invite the following response from the Hard Left;

You ******* bastard racist ****. I hope you live to see all of your children die from cancer, only before you die from it yourself you ******* imbecile ****.

To avoid this happening, people either say I dunno, or probably sleepy Joe.

Once they get into the privacy of the polling booth and away from the hatred, I think they feel more at liberty to vote according to their true feelings.

I’m sure this phenomenon has distorted the U.K. polls and it wouldn’t surprise me to see it happening in the USA.
 
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vfr400

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The problem with polls is this:

If you ask a person who it is that they intend to vote for, by saying, “Trump” you invite the following response from the Hard Left;

You ******* bastard racist ****. I hope you live to see all of your children die from cancer, only before you die from it yourself you ******* imbecile ****.

To avoid this happening, people either say I dunno, or probably sleepy Joe.

Once they get into the privacy of the polling booth and away from the hatred, I think they feel more at liberty to vote according to their true feelings.

I’m sure this phenomenon has distorted the U.K. polls and it wouldn’t surprise me to see it happening in the USA.
Some pollsters, who have a history of accuracy in their predictions ask different questions, like, "Who do you think your neighbours will vote for", or "Who will your extended family members vote for". These polls are showing trump well ahead!
 

Woosh

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Some pollsters, who have a history of accuracy in their predictions ask different questions, like, "Who do you think your neighbours will vote for", or "Who will your extended family members vote for". These polls are showing trump well ahead!
Rasmussen perhaps?

I read something amusing:

Trump has a habit of self-assessing his own approval among Republicans without actually citing any data.
He has tweeted about his GOP approval nearly 50 times over the course of two years, only twice mentioning actual polls. He initially said his GOP approval was 90% in 2018, before claiming 93% in the first half of 2019, 94% from July to October 2019, 95% until April 2020 and 96% since then, without deviation. “President Trump Approval Rating in the Republican Party at 96%. Thank You!” he tweeted on Friday.
 
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vfr400

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If Trump wins, Sidney Powell will become FBI Director. I would love to see that. She'd soon have all the crooked guys in there out. It's desperately what's needed if you believe in democracy, fairness, equity and justice.

It was weird that Christopher Ray, who was sent in to sort it out, never did anything. He must be compromised in some way. Sidney Powell is as clean as they come, in fact she's even cleaner than that. You can be sure that she'll do a good job.
 
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vfr400

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Rasmussen perhaps?

I read something amusing:

Trump has a habit of self-assessing his own approval among Republicans without actually citing any data.
He has tweeted about his GOP approval nearly 50 times over the course of two years, only twice mentioning actual polls. He initially said his GOP approval was 90% in 2018, before claiming 93% in the first half of 2019, 94% from July to October 2019, 95% until April 2020 and 96% since then, without deviation. “President Trump Approval Rating in the Republican Party at 96%. Thank You!” he tweeted on Friday.
Those figures are approval within the republican party. They look about right to me.

An interesting statistic came out the other day. Around 20% of the people attending his recent rallies are registered to vote democrat!

I've been watching both Trump and Biden rallies. Trump is very confident and he seems very relaxed. He keeps saying that their polls show that he's on track to win. Most of his supporters are predicting a landslide. On the other hand, Biden seems to be very nervous and lacking in confidence. Kamala as well seems to come across very fake and unconfident.

The bookies show that all the money is going on Biden to win. One guy bet $1,000,000 on him yesterday.
 
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Barry Shittpeas

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If Trump wins, Sidney Powell will become FBI Director. I would love to see that. She'd soon have all the crooked guys in there out. It's desperately what's needed if you believe in democracy, fairness, equity and justice.

It was weird that Christopher Ray, who was sent in to sort it out, never did anything. He must be compromised in some way. Sidney Powell is as clean as they come, in fact she's even cleaner than that. You can be sure that she'll do a good job.
Lock her up! Lock her up! :D :D :D :D :D :D
 

Woosh

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An interesting statistic came out the other day. Around 20% of the people attending his recent rallies are registered to vote democrat!
where did you read that? I thought 10% of those who voted for Trump in 2016 vote for Biden this time. If 20% of Dems vote for Trump then surely 30% of Reps must have switched side to make up the current popular vote prediction.
 
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vfr400

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Rasmussen perhaps?

I read something amusing:

Trump has a habit of self-assessing his own approval among Republicans without actually citing any data.
He has tweeted about his GOP approval nearly 50 times over the course of two years, only twice mentioning actual polls. He initially said his GOP approval was 90% in 2018, before claiming 93% in the first half of 2019, 94% from July to October 2019, 95% until April 2020 and 96% since then, without deviation. “President Trump Approval Rating in the Republican Party at 96%. Thank You!” he tweeted on Friday.
Here's something about it:
 
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vfr400

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Jun 12, 2011
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where did you read that? I thought 10% of those who voted for Trump in 2016 vote for Biden this time. If 20% of Dems vote for Trump then surely 30% of Reps must have switched side to make up the current popular vote prediction.
I've heard it from several commentators. There's something here that I just found from a Google search:
If I were a democrat voter, I'd probably go to his rally if one was nearby even if I didn't want to vote for him. The atmosphere is absolutely fantastic. Why can't we have politicians like that?
 

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