Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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I still can’t see how pushing a policewoman off a horse says racial equality. That’s because it doesn‘t say racial inequality, it says lawless feral scum instead.
That was one policewoman and one horse, and she was NOT pushed off her horse. The horse threw her off. Having once seen a policeman thrown from his horse in Putney Bridge Road when just out exercising it from the Wandsworth police stable, I know how easily that can happen.

I agree that every mob has it's bad elements, but there were tens of thousands demonstrating all over the country and by common consent the great majority were demonstrating peacefully.
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flecc

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'Disgraceful': Foreign sugar company sponsors Conservative conference
Actually this is the fault of the EU, since the discrimination of the Commission against Tale and Lyle and this British firm's West Indian cane sugar in favour of European beet sugar forced them to diversify into other products from the 1970s. Eventually they sold the market restricted sugar side to an American sugar company in 2010.

Tate and Lyle remain an all British company producing all manner of food related products. They'd better not have a statue though, since they made their original money entirely from slave labour.
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flecc

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Kier Starmer polls better than Boris Johnson in latest YouGov poll:

Starmer: 48
Johnson: 43

It won't make any difference unless Labour almost completely win back Scotland from the SNP. By common agreement they cannot win the country without Scotland, and I can't see them beating the SNP into near non existence, no matter who leads.
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Danidl

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Actually this is the fault of the EU, since the discrimination of the Commission against Tale and Lyle and this British firm's West Indian cane sugar in favour of European beet sugar forced them to diversify into other products from the 1970s. Eventually they sold the market restricted sugar side to an American sugar company in 2010.

Tate and Lyle remain an all British company producing all manner of food related products. They'd better not have a statue though, since they made their original money entirely from slave labour.
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.. I would be looking to board up certain galleries in London and St Ives
 
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Woosh

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It won't make any difference unless Labour almost completely win back Scotland from the SNP. By common agreement they cannot win the country without Scotland, and I can't see them beating the SNP into near non existence, no matter who leads.
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early days for Starmer but he has already made significant progress.
A year from now, he would have built a credible team.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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Speaking of Feral Scum
'Disgraceful': Foreign sugar company sponsors Conservative conference

Source Farming UK
There was some controversy recently regarding a Tory party donor who got planning permission passed 24 hours prior to new legislation coming in that would’ve cost him £50 million. Robert Jenrick rushed it through after local planning authorities refused the application.
 
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flecc

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early days for Starmer but he has already made significant progress.
A year from now, he would have built a credible team.
Agreed, but as I posted, I don't necessarily see that leading to power and there's a wide consensus on that.

The same instincts that created so much anti EU feeling in the UK are those that make the English fundamentally conservative. Without Labour gaining almost all Scotland back, a large swathe of England would have to swing to Labour for them to get power, and they'll only do that for a pseudo tory Labour of the Blair variety.

I doubt a Socialist like Starmer will allow that, but if he does it would be another betrayal of all socialist principles, failing to represent the left.
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Woosh

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and they'll only do that for a pseudo tory Labour of the Blair variety.
would you still vote for Labour if it's pink instead of red? Khan instead of Livingstone?
if you do, then Starmer has a chance.
 

flecc

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would you still vote for Labour if it's pink instead of red? Khan instead of Livingstone?
if you do, then Starmer has a chance.
If Khan versus Livingstone, no, but that is as much due to Ken Livingstone being so effective in London's management, so not a fair comparison.

But Blair was never Labour and his New Labour was never pink, so I never voted for him from the outset.

Between them Labour leaders James Callaghan and Tony Blair destroyed almost any chance of a true Labour party getting into power in the foreseable future.

Callaghan by passing the Scotland Act into law in 1978, this preparing the ground for Scottish home rule, Blair by using that to establish the Scottish Parliament, this making the ascendancy of the SNP inevitable to the detriment of Labour.

It's for Starmer to choose his course, join them just for the short term gain of a brief period of politically pointless power or be true to his principles in the long term interest.

The USA faced this dilemma long ago with their similarly conservative population, having a true left wing Democratic Party or going along with the right. That party has mostly taken the cowards way out of pseudo conservatism, Jimmy Carter just making a feeble attempt the other way and only Barrack Obama making any real effort.

It's this set of circumstances that have led the USA into being the grossly unbalanced society it is today, just as we've arrive at here for the same reasons.

In both countries, the slightest hint of a fair social policy from the opposition leader and the right wing war of lying propaganda begins:

"He's a Communist, Marxist, Trotskyite", plus the personal lies and insults. In Obama's case; "He's a Muslim, wasn't born in America etc", and I hardly need repeat the personal insults against Corbyn.

The answer to this is not to just give in and join the right. It's just to hang in there until the public eventually get sick of the accumulation of abuse and unbalanced society they suffer from the right and retaliate in consequence.

With patience it works. It's why the Romanov Czarist regime ended abruptly, why French nobility lost their heads, why Nicolae Ceaușescu was slaughtered.

Of course I'd rather it not end that way, but it illustrates that the population always has a right wing sufferance limit. Therefore a more reasonable democratic way out should always be waiting in the wings, however ineffective it might have appeared in earlier times.
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vfr400

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Get the popcorn ready. The Hells Angels are on their way at this very moment to liberate CHAZ and hand it back to the Seattle police, probably on 4th July. In case you don't know, CHAZ is the City Hill Automonous Zone, where communists have taken over the zone and made it a police-free area. They've also taken down all the CCTV so that no one can see what they're doing.

The American biker gangs, despite they're general lawlessness, have always been very patriotic and conservative.

This whole CHAZ saga is very entertaining and worth following. It's a real life version of Passport to Pimlico, except the normal residents and business owners are getting a much harder time, while the anarchists have their fun.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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That was one policewoman and one horse, and she was NOT pushed off her horse. The horse threw her off. Having once seen a policeman thrown from his horse in Putney Bridge Road when just out exercising it from the Wandsworth police stable, I know how easily that can happen.

I agree that every mob has it's bad elements, but there were tens of thousands demonstrating all over the country and by common consent the great majority were demonstrating peacefully.
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You are starting to sound like Boris Johnson defending Dominic Cummings ;)

Perhaps someone thought they may have a shoulder injury, so decided to see if they could push a policewoman off a horse In order to test the theory?
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Perhaps someone thought they may have a shoulder injury, so decided to see if they could push a policewoman off a horse In order to test the theory?
You seem to have a problem with understanding, no-one pushed a policewoman off a horse, the horse threw her off. If you've ever ridden horses you'd know what nervous creatures they are and even well trained police ones are no exception.

The one that threw the officer that I mentioned had taken exception to a parked yellow painted truck and suddenly reared. Luckily he wasn't badly hurt, but neither he nor I could lead that horse past that truck afterwards. For some odd reason it was terrified by it.
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Barry Shittpeas

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“People should shop, and shop with confidence” says a man who nearly killed himself with Coronavirus after boasting about shaking hands with people carrying the disease. So, at a time of unprecedented employment insecurity, the same man recommends spending unnecessarily on stuff you don’t need with money you don’t have.

I’d like to see the person specification for the role of Prime Minister. It can only contain two criteria in the Essential category, Massive Bell-End and Coward.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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You seem to have a problem with understanding, no-one pushed a policewoman off a horse, the horse threw her off. If you've ever ridden horses you'd know what nervous creatures they are and even well trained police ones are no exception.

The one that threw the officer that I mentioned had taken exception to a parked yellow painted truck and suddenly reared. Luckily he wasn't badly hurt, but neither he nor I could lead that horse past that truck afterwards. For some odd reason it was terrified by it.
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I’m winding you up.

I have ridden horses and to think something with that mass is being controlled by a brain the size of a walnut is scary. My horse must have been pretty frightened by that thought too.
 

Woosh

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But Blair was never Labour and his New Labour was never pink, so I never voted for him from the outset.
I guessed already that you would not vote for Blair. He was pro Israel and pro USA on top of not being a socialist.
My question was would you vote for Kier Starmer next time? if you do, then Labour may have a chance because there must be millions of socialists like you.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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My question was would you vote for Kier Starmer next time? if you do, then Labour may have a chance because there must be millions of socialists like you.
It's an invalid question for me, since I would vote for any true Labour manifesto next time whoever was leading. That substantially reduces the number of socialists like me.

If Starmer's manifesto looks as though he's betraying socialism in Blair style to get Tory and LibDem votes, I'll vote elsewhere such as the LibDems or Greens, depending on their respective policies.

Of course Starmer could get in then with a Blair style betrayal, but it would be a pointless and damaging victory for the country.

If this ersatz thread is still running then and I'm still surviving, I'll let you know closer to the time.
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jonathan.agnew

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Get the popcorn ready. The Hells Angels are on their way at this very moment to liberate CHAZ and hand it back to the Seattle police, probably on 4th July. In case you don't know, CHAZ is the City Hill Automonous Zone, where communists have taken over the zone and made it a police-free area. They've also taken down all the CCTV so that no one can see what they're doing.

The American biker gangs, despite they're general lawlessness, have always been very patriotic and conservative.

This whole CHAZ saga is very entertaining and worth following. It's a real life version of Passport to Pimlico, except the normal residents and business owners are getting a much harder time, while the anarchists have their fun.
how do you define patriotism? if it involves any degree of intelligence its about identifying with values (as represented by a culture). its not bone headed racist thuggery. a biker gang member who think s/he enjoy violence (I suspect in reality a large number of American bikers are histrionic menopausal endomorphs who following one too many a chuck norris movie severed a tenuous link with a desperately empty underachieving reality) is in for a n ugly surprise, in CHAZ or in a future s/he do not have the emotional or intellectual capacity to adapt to.
 

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