Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

You know it makes sense. Stick with Barry, you won’t go far wrong.

We all know how dodgy agreeing with Conservatives can be

 

[Danidl]

Exactly, so i don't know what you are disagreeing with.

If following someone, two metres is just tokenism since people don't breathe through the back of their necks so far less separation is needed.

If passing in opposite directions the exposure is so short that, as Danidl has pointed out, the risk of transfer is almost nil even if very close.

So social distancing of the two metres kind makes next to no difference, as I said.

Any real reduction in the infection rate has been from total separation, such as not going to work or school, or social gathering centres such as events, entertainments, restaurants etc where strangers have to be close together for extended periods.

Now that total separation is gradually ending we're likely to see the infection rate bounce. If so it will prove that it's total separtion rather than social distancing that is effective.
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Flecc, I am going to disagree.. not with the concept of breathing through their necks ... A person walking is expelling microdroplets . These fo!low them as a cloud and may take minutes to reach ground level . If one inhabits the same space seconds later, the probability rises for inhaling . Carrying this logic, a small person walking a few feet behind a taller person ,is more at risk than the reverse.
This kind of brings me back to my other bugbear.. the underground. Even when this cloud has settled on the platform and is nicely decaying away, a train pulls in a whoosh, re elevates the cloud.
This could in a bizzare way explain the differences between NYC and say LA and SF .
I fully agree with you that being doctrinaire and absolutism is counterproductive. The random close contact is unlikely to create a problem. The systematic contacts are. People outdoors at 1 metre separation in a beer garden are not the problem. People in a Westend Theatre are.

 

[RossG]

This social distancing rule has thrown up some funny anomalies for sure. When I look out of the window I can see people, families and small groups walking along. Sometimes I'll see perhaps two sisters or maybe a couple & child that seem to be socially distancing among themselves with a 2 mtr gap between each person even though they are clearly all together. When I first noticed that I thought I was imagining it but no, there defiantly seems to be a change in human behaviour with at least some of the population.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Flecc, I am going to disagree.. not with the concept of breathing through their necks ... A person walking is expelling microdroplets . These fo!low them as a cloud and may take minutes to reach ground level . If one inhabits the same space seconds later, the probability rises for inhaling . Carrying this logic, a small person walking a few feet behind a taller person ,is more at risk than the reverse.
This kind of brings me back to my other bugbear.. the underground. Even when this cloud has settled on the platform and is nicely decaying away, a train pulls in a whoosh, re elevates the cloud.
This could in a bizzare way explain the differences between NYC and say LA and SF .
I fully agree with you that being doctrinaire and absolutism is counterproductive. The random close contact is unlikely to create a problem. The systematic contacts are. People outdoors at 1 metre separation in a beer garden are not the problem. People in a Westend Theatre are.

I agree with most of that, but wind must be a factor too. If you are sat directly downwind of a person exhaling, the concentration reaching you at say 4 metres could be the same as being sat less than a metre away in still air.

I think of it as sediment in a setting tank. In still water the sediment separates and falls away due to gravity. Stir the water up a bit and introduce a flow, and the sediment will carry, just like water droplets in a turbulent airstream.

 

[flecc]

Flecc, I am going to disagree.. not with the concept of breathing through their necks ... A person walking is expelling microdroplets . These fo!low them as a cloud and may take minutes to reach ground level . If one inhabits the same space seconds later, the probability rises for inhaling . Carrying this logic, a small person walking a few feet behind a taller person ,is more at risk than the reverse.
This kind of brings me back to my other bugbear.. the underground. Even when this cloud has settled on the platform and is nicely decaying away, a train pulls in a whoosh, re elevates the cloud.
This could in a bizzare way explain the differences between NYC and say LA and SF .
I fully agree with you that being doctrinaire and absolutism is counterproductive. The random close contact is unlikely to create a problem. The systematic contacts are. People outdoors at 1 metre separation in a beer garden are not the problem. People in a Westend Theatre are.

I agree in principle, but I was thinking in terms of the typical supermarket queue here. That moves intermittently and the gaps widen as each shift forward occurs. The whole queue never moves as one, the move starts at the front and ripples back along the line, the gaps widening by at least an additional metre as those behind play catchup as each person in front steps forward to restore the two metre or so gaps.

It's quite fascinating to watch the concertina effect and you can see how that negates much of the circumstances of your first paragraph.
.

 

[Danidl]

I agree with most of that, but wind must be a factor too. If you are sat directly downwind of a person exhaling, the concentration reaching you at say 4 metres could be the same as being sat less than a metre away in still air.

I think of it as sediment in a setting tank. In still water the sediment separates and falls away due to gravity. Stir the water up a bit and introduce a flow, and the sediment will carry, just like water droplets in a turbulent airstream.

Fully agree. To my mind the people with a best grasp of this will be civil engineers dealing with p!umes

 

[oldgroaner]

Oh Dear things are getting out of hand in London aren't they? and no doubt it is likely to idiots elsewhere will think it's a good idea.
And for once the old "left wing" rioter argument doesn't fit the case, does it?

 

[oyster]

Here's a odd fact flecc a engineer working in Portsmouth told me. Apparently the safest place to be in that City during a flood is on the seafront because that's the highest point, the rest of the place is lower so is liable to cop it.

Spinnaker Tower should manage. (So long as it stays standing.)

 

[oyster]

Looks like we'll all be heading to Wales or Scotland if that happens.

To find the Cleddau bridge about 100 feet under water...

 

[wheeler]

It sounds like all the BBMFs, MGB GTs & BLTs are at it again in London.

I would think a couple of Apache AH64s would a lot more effective than the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.

 

[wheeler]

Looks like we'll all be heading to Wales or Scotland if that happens.

You can bugger off. Coming up here, taking our jobs, filling our schools, putting pressure on our NHS..............

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

I would think a couple of Apache AH64s would a lot more effective than the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.

Well spotted

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Oh Dear things are getting out of hand in London aren't they? and no doubt it is likely to idiots elsewhere will think it's a good idea.
And for once the old "left wing" rioter argument doesn't fit the case, does it?

Yes, nothing says racial inequality quite like knocking a policewoman off a horse.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

and in France the cause to end racial inequality is furthered by huddling together in groups, in the midsts of a highly contagious public health emergency, and stoning the police.

 

[oldgroaner]

and in France the cause to end racial inequality is furthered by huddling together in groups, in the midsts of a highly contagious public health emergency, and stoning the police.

Who cares what they do in France when idiots on both sides are doing it here?
This is not good at all, imagine what will happen if Brexit turns sour, there needs to be a more positive way to control those attacking the police
The problem is of course not escalating the violence to lethal levels

 

[flecc]

and in France the cause to end racial inequality is furthered by huddling together in groups, in the midsts of a highly contagious public health emergency, and stoning the police.

Yes it is. Taking that risk despite their four times vulnerability to infection and death from Cobid-19 over the white population means the racial discrimination they suffer must be very real.

I'm surprised you publicise this evidence when you deny it exists.

And of course they are provoked to attack the police when the police, who are the very cause of these protests by killing so many of their own, are used to try to prevent the protests.

The expression "red rag to a bull" springs to mind.

Using the army would have been a lesser provocation, so far more sensible. The Americans are sometimes more wise in this respect by using the National Guard to control civil disorder.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Yes it is. Taking that risk despite their four times vulnerability to infection and death from Cobid-19 over the white population means the racial discrimination they suffer must be very real.

I'm surprised you publicise this evidence when you deny it exists.

And of course they are provoked to attack the police when the police, who are the very cause of these protests by killing so many of their own, are used to try to prevent the protests.

The expression "red rag to a bull" springs to mind.

Using the army would have been a lesser provocation, so far more sensible. The Americans are sometimes more wise in this respect by using the National Guard to control civil disorder.
.

I still can’t see how pushing a policewoman off a horse says racial equality. That’s because it doesn‘t say racial inequality, it says lawless feral scum instead.

 

[oyster]

Always avoiding that which he should be doing.

Prime minister has not hosted a Cobra emergency committee for over a month

Downing Street is warned against sidelining devolved nations over government’s Covid-19 response
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/14/prime-minister-has-not-hosted-a-cobra-emergency-committee-for-over-a-month

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Always avoiding that which he should be doing.

Prime minister has not hosted a Cobra emergency committee for over a month

Downing Street is warned against sidelining devolved nations over government’s Covid-19 response
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/14/prime-minister-has-not-hosted-a-cobra-emergency-committee-for-over-a-month

All of them look and sound like they want to put as much distance between themselves and dealing with this public health issue as possible. You get the impression that nobody is in charge, all fearful that the smelly stuff will stick to them.

 

[oldgroaner]

Speaking of Feral Scum
'Disgraceful': Foreign sugar company sponsors Conservative conference

Source Farming UK