Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Westminster disbanded eventually, us being a poir second and third to France and Germany ...

Not true, Westminster would be the state legislature within the country of Federal Europe once union was achieved. If other federations are anything to go by, it would have more powers than now.

Referendum was never viewed as advisory,

Not true again.

2010: Inquiry by a House of Lords committee concluded that “because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory”.

In response, then-constitutional reform minister Mark Harper stated: “The Government agrees with this recommendation.

“Under the UK’s constitutional arrangements, Parliament must be responsible for deciding whether or not to take action in response to a referendum result.”

Dominic Grieve, the former Attorney General, said: “It is the case that all referendums are advisory – that’s absolutely, abundantly clear.

“The Government doesn’t have a blank cheque on what model we pursue as we come out of the EU, or our future relationship with the European Union, because the electorate made no pronouncement on that whatsoever.”
.

 

[tillson]

Firstly it's throes not throws,and what we are about to do isn't to try something new, but to do what Einstein cautioned against
Running the same experiment again and expecting a different result.
The only difference being that we are infinitely worse of than we were back then and are about to do the equivalent of fighting the "Battle of Britain" again, but this time the RAF will be equipped with Tiger Moths and the Enemy with Eurofighters.

In your minority opinion of course.

 

[oldgroaner]

In your minority opinion of course.

Is it? the Referendum was before people had any understanding as to what it would actually mean, and since with luck a greater understanding of the risks has been obtained, quite frankly the notion that Brexit is still the majority view is highly unlikely.
Once it goes ahead even the slightest setback will make this volatile public of ours not only hate it, but start looking hard at the culprits that brought it about.and realise that the EU was actually their friend and our Government the source of their reduced standard of living.
And the most strident voices among Brexit voters will be the first to deny the way they voted.

 

[Zlatan]

Not true, Westminster would be the state legislature within the country of Federal Europe once union was achieved. If other federations are anything to go by, it would have more powers than now.



Not true again.

2010: Inquiry by a House of Lords committee concluded that “because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory”.

In response, then-constitutional reform minister Mark Harper stated: “The Government agrees with this recommendation.

“Under the UK’s constitutional arrangements, Parliament must be responsible for deciding whether or not to take action in response to a referendum result.”

Dominic Grieve, the former Attorney General, said: “It is the case that all referendums are advisory – that’s absolutely, abundantly clear.

“The Government doesn’t have a blank cheque on what model we pursue as we come out of the EU, or our future relationship with the European Union, because the electorate made no pronouncement on that whatsoever.”
.

Flecc
I said, and you even quoted me as saying so, the referendum was not viewed as advisory.

Do you really think electorate would have bothered voting for an opinion poll.

And strictly speaking the referendum was not legally binding, which is completely different to advisory, especially taking into account some politicians ( lies?) stance on subject. ( Redwood.." The referendum is legally binding")

As much as referendum was not legally binding it could quite easily be seen as democratically enforceable. Either way arguing it was advisory is at best mis leading and wrong.

As for comments re Westminster disbanded...I was speaking metaphorically. We dont know what UK will look like in 20 years in the EU. Its development has exceeded what people expected. It has become far more involved in peoples lives and if we remain this process of devolvement will continue.

 

[oldgroaner]

Flecc
I said, and you even quoted me as saying so, the referendum was not viewed as advisory.

Do you really think electorate would have bothered voting for an opinion poll.

And strictly speaking the referendum was not legally binding, which is completely different to advisory, especially taking into account some politicians ( lies?) stance on subject. ( Redwood.." The referendum is legally binding")

As much as referendum was not legally binding it could quite easily be seen as democratically enforceable. Either way arguing it was advisory is at best mis leading and wrong.

Fascinating that something that is unquestionably
"ADVISORY" NOT LEGALLY BINDING" is in your view the complete opposite.
Neither is it "Democratically Enforcible" as there is no such thing.
It clearly contravenes the Sale of Goods act as a phony and not fit for purpose.

So let's cut to the Quick; who was it that failed to point out the Advisory and Non legally Binding nature of the Referendum?
First of all Davis has his name is on the introductory Bill
Sorry old chap , he clearly committed a massive crime to mislead the public for his own purposes, that cannot be denied.
He lied, Get over it.
How can something not legally binding become legally enforceable when it was actually nothing more than a confidence trick sold using false pretences?
All it has going for it is it suits right wing politicians who will exploit the Public using their decision as an excuse, backed up by the threat of Mob unrest.

 

[tillson]

Is it? the Referendum was before people had any understanding as to what it would actually mean, and since with luck a greater understanding of the risks has been obtained, quite frankly the notion that Brexit is still the majority view is highly unlikely.
Once it goes ahead even the slightest setback will make this volatile public of ours not only hate it, but start looking hard at the culprits that brought it about.and realise that the EU was actually their friend and our Government the source of their reduced standard of living.
And the most strident voices among Brexit voters will be the first to deny the way they voted.

When considered from your perspective and based on the information which you allow to pass through your "remain filter."

 

[oldtom]

similar to now but with greater sovereignty

Ignoring the rest of your misinformed drivel, Please define what 'greater sovereignty' means.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

I hope this link works. Gentlemen, the marvellous Jacob Rees Mogg.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1111744532257120

I wonder why he voted to cut welfare benefits to his Liege lords?
The man is a clearly being missed by a village out there somewhere.

 

[flecc]

Flecc
I said, and you even quoted me as saying so, the referendum was not viewed as advisory.

Quoting isn't approval, I quoted to say you were wrong.

Presumably you feel your opinion on advisory overrules the law as stated by the legislators, before and since the referendum.

It was and is advisory as they clearly stated.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Fascinating that something that is unquestionably
"ADVISORY" NOT LEGALLY BINDING" is in your view the complete opposite.
Neither is it "Democratically Enforcible" as there is no such thing.
It clearly contravenes the Sale of Goods act as a phony and not fit for purpose.

So let's cut to the Quick; who was it that failed to point out the Advisory and Non legally Binding nature of the Referendum?
First of all Davis has his name is on the introductory Bill
Sorry old chap , he clearly committed a massive crime to mislead the public for his own purposes, that cannot be denied.
He lied, Get over it.
How can something not legally binding become legally enforceable when it was actually nothing more than a confidence trick sold using false pretences?
All it has going for it is it suits right wing politicians who will exploit the Public using their decision as an excuse, backed up by the threat of Mob unrest.

Your google must be throwing up different explanations OG...

 

[oldgroaner]

When considered from your perspective and based on the information which you allow to pass through your "remain filter."

No tillson not a "Remain Filter" but when exposed to the " logical examination," toddle off and Google that in case you have need of it, when you look back in a year or two you may find it works better than "Brexit Goggles" and the fairy tale has worn off.

 

[oldgroaner]

Your google must be throwing up different explanations OG...

No, the facts are plain enough, you did say "I can read" does "understanding"
What has happened elude you?

 

[Zlatan]

Quoting isn't approval, I quoted to say you were wrong.

Presumably you feel your opinion on advisory overrules the law as stated by the legislators, before and since the referendum.

It was and is advisory as they clearly stated.
.

Not at all.
I think the voting public saw it as binding, what it was is a different matter.
If only advisory and not democratically enforceable ( which obviously has nothing to do with law) it simply will not happen.
OG is contradicting himself. If Brexit happens ( which I doubt) it will be because it has proved to be democratically enforceable.( probably owing to collapse of labour party ?)

How many times have you heard politicians say " Its the will of the people"
What they are actually saying is "we,ll lose power if we don't do it"..That,s the concept democratically enforced. ( But I don't think they would lose power, hence it wont happen. If OG is correct and it happens, it will have been democratically enforced)
Or on back of democratically enforced..ie the will of the people.!!!!

If the referendum was both advisory and not democratically enforceable it would have been forgotten about by about June 24th.

In a way its exactly why Cameron was fecked and resigned. Legally he could ( probably , its not certain) have ignored referendum. Democratically he could not alienate/ ignore 52% of voting public. Its nothing to do with serving the people, its all to do with staying in power.( which I suppose are linked??!!)

 

[flecc]

Not at all.
I think the voting public saw it as binding, what it was is a different matter.

Just like they thought they voted on the Common Market in 1975. The fact that they were wrong then and now is immaterial, their mistakes don't change the facts.

If only advisory and not democratically enforceable ( which obviously has nothing to do with law) it simply will not happen.

Total nonsense, the advisory status was the law as stated by our law makers, so it has everything to do with the law.

To say something advisory will not happen is just more nonsense, people and organisations act on advice all the time.

You really have some weirdly irrational ways of reasoning.
.

 

[oldtom]

The man is a clearly being missed by a village out there somewhere.

This whole 'Brexit' nonsense has become surreal and it's as if all the village idiots from every corner of Britain have formed something akin to a 'Dad's Army' Home
Guard, defending sovereignty when no-one even knew it had gone missing.

Their 'sleepers' have infiltrated every part of society and even here in the relatively peaceful oasis of 'Pedelecs', we have been unable to escape them but worse! - they have been augmented by outsiders from France and the North Pole who should be repatriated as quickly as practicable lest they become a drain on the public purse in addition to the human spirit here in Pedelecshire.

OG, I fear you may be wrong in you assertion in quotes above - I suspect villagers somewhere are keeping very quiet about the disappearance and who can blame them?

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

You really have some weirdly irrational ways of reasoning.
.

I,m in good company then Flecc.

 

[tillson]

I see that McDonald's restaurants have moved their tax base holding company from Luxembourg to the UK.

Yet more bad investment news attributable to BREXIT.

 

[Zlatan]

I see that McDonald's restaurants have moved their tax base holding company from Luxembourg to the UK.

Yet more bad investment news attributable to BREXIT.

That will have upset Juhnkers...and a few on here no doubt.

 

[oldtom]

OG, it seems you need a different search engine as your 'Googles' aren't as good as the 'Googles' used by others. I can see how this could be a problem but with the rate of progress in the world of computer technology, you needn't worry. We will soon be able to sit back and simply start up our 'Googles' and let them fight it out to the finish.

It will probably become a spectator sport and a TV show with a panel of judges to comment on the various talents and abilities, sending one contender out of the contest each week till the final 'Google-Off'.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

I see that McDonald's restaurants have moved their tax base holding company from Luxembourg to the UK.

Yet more bad investment news attributable to BREXIT.

McDonald's pay taxes? Really!

Tom