Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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KTM
It was an exaggeration.
But you got the point.

And BTW much of your past eu argument has been around defending free movement for economic ( exploitation?) reasons. Well could you please explain why now Alan Johnson ( a devout remain campainer) is saying free movement is totally unworkable.

And BTW Hitler was elected. Juhnkers is a gangster and has done everything possible to enhance wealth of himself and Luxembourg. Please explain exactly what he,s done for EU in general and its poorer elements specifically? Infact what has eu done to alleviate povertty anywhere, conflict anywhere or lack of investment anywhere...they pay lip service to all three whilst widening social injustice.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Ireland
And now Juhnker announces other EU members must not hold referendums!! That,s democracy at work from our unelected leader of eu..
Just to remind you...this man is the ex priminister of what has become richest nation on earth.. all gained out of other countries loss in tax revenue !!!
Just think what state poorer eu countries could be in if inly one tength of companies had gone to them over Luxembourg..but eu tax laws prevent them offering same incentives as Juhnkers organised for Luxembourg....Its utterly appalling. ( again just to remind you in 2012 Luxembourg allowed American Companies to reduce their tax burden by 95 billion dollars. Imagine what that money could have done for impoverished. And that is only American companies...Its the same for every major EU country.

And remainers want this man to remain in power holding massive power over UK.. Why ???
Hi be fair. That is not what he said. According to that paragon of objective reporting the Sun what he actually said was " we cannot deny or take away the people of Europe's right to express their views , but I think it is not wise to organise that kind of debate ....

And he is actually an elected member. You and I had the right to elect MEPs, you and I had the right to elect our respective national parliaments . These bodies then selected potential commissioners and the MEPs voted on them.

I understand that you appear to have a particular antipathy to Luxembourg, a place I know little about. It is wealthy due in part to geography, being in the part of Europe with the denseist infrastructure and because they got into financial services before others. If you have a small population it is easier to make huge gains quickly.

Europe is constantly playing catch-up with the wiles of corporate lawyers and the sooner these tax avoidance havens are rooted out the better. But remember the UK has a few tax refuges of its own ... Isle of Man, channel islands, Bermuda.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Making fun is fair game, lampoonists make us laugh whilst commenting on some of the looney ideas.

What my objection is picking on women, three in particular, just on their looks.
That's very noble of you Croxden but I'm afraid we'll need to agree to disagree on this topic.

The lady concerned chose to enter the world of politics so to me she is simply a politician, therefore fair game - it matters not to me which gender I poke fun at and if we allow political correctness any more latitude, there will be no room for humour at all in our society for fear of upsetting someone, somewhere......did I ever tell you the one about the hedgehog, the frog and the worm? Actually, I won't, just in case the worm gets upset!

Tom

ps I can't remember making fun of anyone else among the female of the species so who are the other two?
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Agreed Danid

But what has EU done in past 15 years to address fact that Luxembourg , for various reasons but largest of them their tax laws, to change the fact that GDP oer head in his country is £65000 per head, whilst Serbia ( not even poorest) is £6000 per head...Yet EU is held up as paragon of social justice. It simply isn't.

And back to free movement.
To Quote Alan Johnson. ( former Labour Home Secretary and a Europhile")
"Freemovent has failed"

Perhaps he,ll be labelled a racist,xebophobe or misinformed..
 
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Wicky

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Feb 12, 2014
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Since all the post BREXIT predictions of disaster have failed to materialised, and will continue to do so, I suppose this latest fabrication gives them a straw to clutch at.

Tell that to the Tories who have chosen to implement Brexit and in doing so will make them unelectable in any general election by slashing their majority.

Maybe the only hope of achieving Brexit will be Farage leading a coup to make it so...
 
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tillson

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May 29, 2008
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Since all the post BREXIT predictions of disaster have failed to materialised, and will continue to do so, I suppose this latest fabrication gives them a straw to clutch at.

Tell that to the Tories who have chosen to implement Brexit and in doing so will make them unelectable in any general election by slashing their majority.
Says who?
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
And now Juhnker announces
You seem to be totally obsessed with this man, repeatedly referring to him and his home country of Luxembourg.

You have obviously read a very different profile of the man from me to have such a poor opinion of him so you must have seen his name in print. His name is Jean-Claude Juncker or Monsieur Juncker, if you like. Why are you unable to get that simple fact right and spell his name correctly?

Then again, as you are so wrong in almost everything you have to say about the EU and 'Brexit', why should I be surprised? A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, I believe. Have you ever heard that?

Tom
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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derf, I am employed in a full time job. I always have been.

In addition to my employment, I also run an aircraft maintenance and airworthiness business. My customers include citizens of the UK, Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Spain and Luxembourg. I have a good relationship with them and they like me and the quality of service that I provide. This is reinforced by the repeat loyal customers I have and the growing nature of the business.

I have no intention of telling any of them to get lost. Yet again you have made this up. This tendency of yours to fabricate, invent and imagined situations that have no bearing on reality or fact is becoming tiresome. Please get a grip on yourself and separate truth from lies.
Exellent! the following statement ranks up there with lord Nigel's last (and greatest ever so far) resignation speech.

"This tendency of yours to fabricate, invent and imagined situations that have no bearing on reality or fact is becoming tiresome."

I ask in all humility,
Has anyone ever heard of a more incisive description of the thought processes of a Brexit Voter anywhere, at any time?
I remain your biggest fan, etc,etc.;)
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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No never heard that Tom...

And rather ironically KTM and yourself jump to defense if this Juhnker ,KTM arguing he was democratically elected by a group of MEP's voted in on unkown policies , parties or identities in some cases ,in elections generating on average 40% turnout( meaning MEP,s could be elected on around 11% actual vote) yet our referendum with 72% turnout was deemed undemocratic. Irony.

Yes my spelling of Juhnkers might be poor but knowledge of his actions rather better than yours Tom.
And by the way why do you always turn to insult when losing an argument.? Not good form old boy.

Please tell us all of Junkers philanthropic acts rather than insulting others.

By all meens corect mi speling Tom.
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
No never heard that Tom...

And rather ironically KTM and yourself jump to defense if this Juhnker ,KTM arguing he was democratically elected by a group of MEP's voted in on unkown policies , parties or identities in some cases ,in elections generating on average 40% turnout( meaning MEP,s could be elected on around 11% actual vote) yet our referendum with 72% turnout was deemed undemocratic. Irony.

Yes my spelling of Juhnkers might be poor but knowledge of his actions rather better than yours Tom.
And by the way why do you always turn to insult when losing an argument.? Not good form old boy.

Please tell us all of Junkers philanthropic acts rather than insulting others.

By all meens corect mi speling Tom.
I think you have grave problems which run deeper than I thought initially when you joined the 'Brexit' discussion. That was after criticising the main protagonists and concluding with this statement:

I,ll stick to the dvp thread.
Unfortunately, it seems you lied and now you continually provide readers with your remarks about a great European visionary whose name you cannot even spell.

If you wish to be taken seriously, you really ought to learn something about the EU and its component parts; learn about elections, elected officials, terms of office and read about how democracy is the basis for all that happens at Brussels.

There is some good information on matters about which you seem clueless contained in the first 7,000 posts of this thread. I recommend it!

Tom
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
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www.kudoscycles.com
I note with a tinge of amusement that I have attracted a few "disagree" markers regarding my thoughts on the Richmond by-election. The remain camp seem to believe that because an anti BREXIT parliamentary candidate won, in an area which voted by over 70% in favour of remaining in the EU during the referendum, that this somehow represents a sea change in public opinion on the matter.

If we were to hold a by-election in Boston (Lincs) and the candidates canvased on their stance on BREXIT, a pro BREXIT candidate would win for much the same reasons as the Lib Dem candidate won in Richmond. As with Richmond, this would have absolutely nothing to do with the imaginary shift in the nation's stance on BREXIT, as the remainers seem to be putting out.

Since all the post BREXIT predictions of disaster have failed to materialised, and will continue to do so, I suppose this latest fabrication gives them a straw to clutch at.
You are correct....Richmond Park was 70% remain and so it was to be expected that if Remainers are still active there would be a protest vote anti Brexit,it is clear that Remainers are still Remainers,but the shift was 31% from Tory to Lib-dem.
The recent Witney by-election,was Cameron's safe seat,but the Tory majority was reduced from 25000 to 5000,a 21% shift from Tory to Liberal.
It would be very interesting if a strong pro Brexit area experienced a similar shift,there is a by-election in Sleaford and North Hykeham, next week,The seat was a strong Tory seat(56%)and strong leave,most consider the by-election will be fought mainly on immigration,the Liberals(5.7%) if they advanced this would be a surprise and would indicate a sea change against Brexit. It could be that UKIP do well in protest against the slow progress of this government.
But you are ignoring the Tory or Labour marginal seats,,these are the interesting seats,where say a 15% shift to Liberal,the shift being all due to Brexit,could change the holding.
Understand I am no Liberal,I would only vote Liberal as a protest vote against Brexit,but there are many Tory voters who think similarly.
Sky News had an interesting schedule of the likely parliament voting re triggering A50, it looks about even 320 votes to 321,but the whips are unlikely to expose A50 to parliament unless they are sure they can win. MP's are more likely to cause trouble and delays rather than outright vote against.
The EU are clearly monitoring every by-election and aware that there is a large anti-Brexit vote in the UK,this is going to make Davis's and May's negotiations much more difficult,I expect the EU to also practice delaying tactics.
Many of the post vote disasters were overdone but wait awhile,they are coming through the system,many people are very stretched it would not take much to really hurt,some of the price rises and revenue drops are ugly,hope redundancies are kept to a minimum.
KudosDave
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Tom
Thanks for the advice. You still haven't explained what good acts Junkers has masterminded.
You still haven't explained why free movement of people is desirable.
You still haven't explained why we should stay in eu.

Anyhow take care Tom.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Tom
Thanks for the advice. You still haven't explained what good acts Junkers has masterminded.
You still haven't explained why free movement of people is desirable.
You still haven't explained why we should stay in eu.

Anyhow take care Tom.
Free movement of people gives us access to the best people to do any job...for some of the highly skilled we don't have enough of the quality of employee in this country,shortage of doctors in the NHS,shortage of IT skills etc.
I like foreign people as much as the English,my wife is an immigrant,my son is dating a lovely Spanish girl,immigration and migration is great for our country.
For the low skilled there are many jobs in hotels,restaurants,hospitality,the farms that Brits no longer want to do those jobs,there are a lot of lazy people in the uk who prefer to live on benefits.
Stay in the EU.....50% of our trade is with the EU,it is a known quantity why risk it for a leap into the unknown.???
KudosDave
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Tom
Thanks for the advice. You still haven't explained what good acts Junkers has masterminded.
You still haven't explained why free movement of people is desirable.
You still haven't explained why we should stay in eu.

Anyhow take care Tom.
And you haven't offered an alternative view, just gone round and round off topic every time.
You didn't vote in the referendum and stated in post 7132 that if there was a second one , you wouldn't vote in that either as there appears to be in your eyes no Politician that you trust.
Odd then that in post 7141 you suggest the best solution is to bring back Royalty on the basis of having all the parasites in the same place.
So after all your rants about various politicians and the failings of the EU.all that you have achieved is to provoke responses, and then ignore, deflect or deny their validity, no matter what the responses are.
And offered no viable alternative, just nonsense.

noun: rebel without a cause
  1. 1.
    a person who is dissatisfied with society but does not have a specific aim to fight for.
    "he was a rebel without a cause, a born mutineer"
I have found a theme tune for you.
I.M.H.O of course :cool:
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Does that make me a young Marlon Brando OG...or was it James Dean?
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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More Vintage Boris
"
Number 10 slaps down Boris Johnson over EU army comments
BRITAIN will veto any bid by Brussels to build an EU army that would undermine Nato, despite Boris Johnson saying he was “fine” with greater military co-operation.
With the exception of Lord Nigel, no one has committed more acts of stupidity to try to get the sack in human history.
This "All things to All Men" viewpoint seems to be contagious.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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The Express again
"
The judges and the people: Next week, 11 unaccountable individuals will consider a case that could thwart the will of the majority on Brexit. The Mail makes no apology for revealing their views - and many have links to Europe
  • Four have formal links to either the EU, its courts or European institutions
  • Five have publicly expressed views which appear to be sympathetic to EU
  • Six have links with individuals who've been critical of the Leave campaign
I thought I would see if the mods were awake and posted this
"
So a paper accountable to Murdoch calls judges unaccountable?
This paper is subversive and now opposing the rule of law"

What do you rate it's chances of either being printed or gaining any approving ticks?
 

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