Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

It’s reached the point now where unless you pay for medical care, you ARE being exposed to danger. GPs are being forced to gamble with diagnosis in order to try and keep the overwhelmed specialist service limping along. It’s all caused by too many people in the form of new arrivals and non contributors.

Ah but it seems all's well again in the NHS since they appear to be flush with money. They are about to get a large fleet of luxury cars, usual price from £63,925 each, to drive about in:

"Jaguar has completed a deal with the Northumbria Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust to deliver a fleet of 700 I-Pace electric vehicles for use by public sector staff across the country.

The agreement will see staff from more than 200 organisations have access to lease the electric Jaguar over a three-year period, using the existing salary sacrifice scheme.

With the deal completed through Northumbria Healthcare’s NHS Fleet Solutions, it will open up access to a large number of public sector staff to get behind the wheel of the reigning World, European, and UK Car of the Year.

Able to cover almost 300 miles on a single charge, the I-Pace is well suited to a large number of use cases, and comfortably covers average daily mileages for a great many UK drivers.

Sir James Mackey, Chief Executive Northumbria Healthcare, said: “We are delighted to be working with Jaguar Land Rover UK, this is a great deal for NHS and public sector staff and delivers genuine benefit to our patients.

“To have a fleet of cars that are fully electric demonstrates our on-going commitment to making decisions that reduce our impact on the environment and help us become greener.”

Claire Watson-Brown, National Contract Hire & Public Sector Manager, Jaguar Land Rover UK, said: “We are very proud to provide NHS and Public Sector staff with this fleet of Jaguar I-Paces. The I-Pace demonstrates our latest electric vehicle technology, developed here in the UK to deliver clean, sustainable and efficient transport.”

The I-Pace will be available to public sector staff at organisations which are signed up to NHS Fleet Solutions from April 2020.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Ah but it seems all's well again in the NHS since they appear to be flush with money. They are about to get a large fleet of luxury cars, usual price from £63,925 each, to drive about in:

"Jaguar has completed a deal with the Northumbria Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust to deliver a fleet of 700 I-Pace electric vehicles for use by public sector staff across the country.

The agreement will see staff from more than 200 organisations have access to lease the electric Jaguar over a three-year period, using the existing salary sacrifice scheme.

With the deal completed through Northumbria Healthcare’s NHS Fleet Solutions, it will open up access to a large number of public sector staff to get behind the wheel of the reigning World, European, and UK Car of the Year.

Able to cover almost 300 miles on a single charge, the I-Pace is well suited to a large number of use cases, and comfortably covers average daily mileages for a great many UK drivers.

Sir James Mackey, Chief Executive Northumbria Healthcare, said: “We are delighted to be working with Jaguar Land Rover UK, this is a great deal for NHS and public sector staff and delivers genuine benefit to our patients.

“To have a fleet of cars that are fully electric demonstrates our on-going commitment to making decisions that reduce our impact on the environment and help us become greener.”

Claire Watson-Brown, National Contract Hire & Public Sector Manager, Jaguar Land Rover UK, said: “We are very proud to provide NHS and Public Sector staff with this fleet of Jaguar I-Paces. The I-Pace demonstrates our latest electric vehicle technology, developed here in the UK to deliver clean, sustainable and efficient transport.”

The I-Pace will be available to public sector staff at organisations which are signed up to NHS Fleet Solutions from April 2020.

Thanks for the reassurance, but I think I’ll stick with my original plan for the time being.

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the reassurance, but I think I’ll stick with my original plan for the time being.

Ah but look what Sir James Mackay said:

"Sir James Mackey, Chief Executive Northumbria Healthcare, said: “We are delighted to be working with Jaguar Land Rover UK, this is a great deal for NHS and public sector staff and delivers genuine benefit to our patients. "

I'd love to know how NHS staff driving around in expensive luxury cars genuinely benefits patients.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

I'd love to know how NHS staff driving around in expensive luxury cars genuinely benefits patients.

You know how. They use the same argument to justify pop-star level salaries. They say that these sorts of perks attract the top people into the organisation.

The fact is, it doesn’t. You end up with well paid Bell-ends driving fancy cars, whilst the low paid front line workers make the system work by ignoring the bell-end’s directives.

 

[oldgroaner]

I’m afraid that the place the U.K. has become, the wallet is wellbeing and safety. I’m looking after both of those for me and my family.

Frankly I think you are mistaken in that belief

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Frankly I think you are mistaken in that belief

I sincerely hope that I am mistaken. It would be heartening to know that I had made a mistake in this regard. I am not counting on it though.

 

[Danidl]

I understood that the driver was working, but he did say that it was the benefits system which attracted him to the U.K. That was why he moved to the U.K. from Portugal. In his opinion, the Portuguese benefit system was not as lucrative as the UK’s.

Now if he is working in the U.K., he can’t have as long a history of paying into the system as many of U.K. born population have. Portugal have probably realised this and taken action, thus displacing him to the U.K.

I know that you think you are very clever and I’m sure you are the cleverest man ever. But you don’t do yourself any favours with replies such as the one above. You have clearly mis-read woosh’s post, become confused and then made an inappropriate reply. Try to do better.

My cleverness is not in question, at least not by me. But returning to the main issue, this man was employed,he was paying taxes, the UK gets him as a fully grown adult male, without any investment in maternity care, no childhood inoculations, no primary schooling, no secondary schooling , etc. All of these were without any cost to the UK taxpayer,. Your native Englishman of 21 has been taking from the system, for about 21.5 years ,and perhaps has contributed nothing yet ..That is his history.
In the event that some idiot smashs this Brazilian in his face outside a pub, should he not get medical care or the dole while he is recovering?

 

[jonathan.agnew]

I’m afraid that the place the U.K. has become, the wallet is wellbeing and safety. I’m looking after both of those for me and my family.

That's the tory spirit (of utterly unenlightened self interest). The boris spirit of looking after oneself and not caring about anyone else. Your in for more austerity (you did, after all, vote for it). Doesnt quite work like that. You're in and part of a community. In my line of work it usually requires an inappropriately discharged patient (with say paranoid schizophrenia in partial remision) to push a tory donors relative in front of a tube train - for there to be a sudden dramatic local increase in spending on mental health. Its tragic and part of the same kind of myopia you struggle with.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

My cleverness is not in question, at least not by me. But returning to the main issue, this man was employed,he was paying taxes, the UK gets him as a fully grown adult male, without any investment in maternity care, no childhood inoculations, no primary schooling, no secondary schooling , etc. All of these were without any cost to the UK taxpayer,. Your native Englishman of 21 has been taking from the system, for about 21.5 years ,and perhaps has contributed nothing yet ..That is his history.
In the event that some idiot smashs this Brazilian in his face outside a pub, should he not get medical care or the dole while he is recovering?

The key point, which you are missing, is that it’s the benefit system which brought him to the U.K. He stated that to Hattie. There is something fundamentally wrong with that situation.

 

[flecc]

do you know how much is the usage cost (of adding 125 miles in 15 minutes) of one of those ultra rapid chargers?

At the time you asked I didn't know for the Ultra Rapid chargers since I can't use them.

However I have one answer now.

"Ionity has announced it is switching to a per kWh payment process, rather than the flat fee it currently operates on its ultra-rapid EV charge points.

Since the pan-European network launched, plans were always to charge a fee per kWh used, but the initial roll-out of the network has seen a fee of £8 per charging session in the UK.

As of 31st January, the pricing system will change to 69p/kWh in the UK across its charging network. There are currently more than 200 Ionity locations dotted across the main routes of Europe, featuring over 860 charge points."

So quite expensive now, for a mid sized car like my Leaf, averaging 4 miles per kWh means equivalent to 29 mpg on an ic car at £5 a gallon. The answer to your question is £21.56.

A home charger with electricity at night rate of say 10p per kWh can yield 200 mpg equivalence on the Leaf, costing £3.13 for 125 miles for your question.

Obviously as the Ultra Rapid charger network expands, competition between suppliers will bring down their prices and then cost less than fossil fuel cars.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

That's the tory spirit (of utterly unenlightened self interest). The boris spirit of looking after oneself and not caring about anyone else. Your in for more austerity (you did, after all, vote for it). Doesnt quite work like that. You're in and part of a community. In my line of work it usually requires an inappropriately discharged patient (with say paranoid schizophrenia in partial remision) to push a tory donors relative in front of a tube train - for there to be a sudden dramatic local increase in spending on mental health. Its tragic and part of the same kind of myopia you struggle with.

I didn’t say that I have no concerns for others. You invented that bit to add false support to your failing arguments.

 

[oyster]

At the time you asked I didn't know for the Ultra Rapid chargers since I can't use them.

However I have one answer now.

"Ionity has announced it is switching to a per kWh payment process, rather than the flat fee it currently operates on its ultra-rapid EV charge points.

Since the pan-European network launched, plans were always to charge a fee per kWh used, but the initial roll-out of the network has seen a fee of £8 per charging session in the UK.

As of 31st January, the pricing system will change to 69p/kWh in the UK across its charging network. There are currently more than 200 Ionity locations dotted across the main routes of Europe, featuring over 860 charge points."

So quite expensive now, for a mid sized car like my Leaf, averaging 4 miles per kWh means equivalent to 29 mpg on an ic car at £5 a gallon.

A home charger with electricity at night rate of say 10p per kWh can yield 200 mpg equivalence on the Leaf.

Obviously as the Ultra Rapid charger network expands, competition between suppliers will bring down their prices and then cost less than fossil fuel cars.
.

Is 69p a reasonable cost given the investment made installing the kit and supplying it with electicity, maintenance, etc.?

Or is it gouging?

And is there anything stopping them putting the prices up even more? (Other than competitive pressure. But we know the theory of competion versus the actualy cost of fuel at motorway services - i.e. when you become a distress customer.)

On the two cars I regularly drive, I would be shocked to get only 29 mpg. One manages around 50 mpg on a decent run, the other 60 mpg (with care).

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

At the time you asked I didn't know for the Ultra Rapid chargers since I can't use them.

However I have one answer now.

"Ionity has announced it is switching to a per kWh payment process, rather than the flat fee it currently operates on its ultra-rapid EV charge points.

Since the pan-European network launched, plans were always to charge a fee per kWh used, but the initial roll-out of the network has seen a fee of £8 per charging session in the UK.

As of 31st January, the pricing system will change to 69p/kWh in the UK across its charging network. There are currently more than 200 Ionity locations dotted across the main routes of Europe, featuring over 860 charge points."

So quite expensive now, for a mid sized car like my Leaf, averaging 4 miles per kWh means equivalent to 29 mpg on an ic car at £5 a gallon.

A home charger with electricity at night rate of say 10p per kWh can yield 200 mpg equivalence on the Leaf. The answer to your question is £21.56.

Obviously as the Ultra Rapid charger network expands, competition between suppliers will bring down their prices and then cost less than fossil fuel cars.
.

Plus, I suspect the average user won’t need to use rapid chargers for every recharge? I guess 80% of charging will be done at home, with rapid units only being used on infrequent longer journeys.

 

[flecc]

Is 69p a reasonable cost given the investment made installing the kit and supplying it with electicity, maintenance, etc.?

Or is is gouging?

And is there anything stopping them putting the prices up even more? (Other than competitive pressure. But we know the theory of competion versus the actualy cost of fuel at motorway services - i.e. when you become a distress customer.)

On the two cars I regularly drive, I would be shocked to get only 29 mpg. One manages around 50 mpg on a decent run, the other 60 mpg (with care).

I think it's necessary rather than fair, simply to get such an expensive intermittently used facility installed. As the e-car fleet expands, the higher rate of usage per charger unit and a slower installation rate will enable far lower prices, that also impelled by competition.

And as Barry says above, most of one's charging is done at home at very low cost, so the average cost will invariably be far lower the running an ic car.
.

 

[Danidl]

The key point, which you are missing, is that it’s the benefit system which brought him to the U.K. He stated that to Hattie. There is something fundamentally wrong with that situation.

I have some experience dealing with Brazilians.
a decade or fifteen years ago, the Brazilian Government, .. decided to subsidise a year abroad for a large number of students. We would have had numbers of Engineering students. Brazil was flush with money at the time.. the BRIC economic boom etc , and had a surfeit of students and had not budgeted building college places, so subsidising a year abroad was a cost effective temporary solution. Anyway after 3 years the boom collapsed, and these students were marooned , and some who had completed their studies came back to Europe. Obviously Portugal ,was a favoured location, for those with only Portuguese, as was Ireland ,for those wanting to improve their English, as was Germany for others.
We have had a significant number of these Brazilians , qualified engineering graduates operating in the grey or black economy..or unskilled jobs. Visas are not required from Brazil , but since they are outside the EU, getting employment is difficult. So qualified graduates would be tourist rickshaw drivers (eBike rickshaws ,without insurance etc).
A committee I am on, is accrediting, for our Chartered institute , on an individual basis, their academic and engineering work experience ,so that where appropriate, they can be recognised as proper engineers . Once accredited, they can get work papers and join the economy.
I suspect that Hatties gentleman is one of those marooned.

 

[flecc]

Plus, I suspect the average user won’t need to use rapid chargers for every recharge? I guess 80% of charging will be done at home, with rapid units only being used on infrequent longer journeys.

It will probably be way higher than 80% charging at home.

With the newer generation of e-cars having from 220 to well over 300 miles range and very few drivers ever exceeding those daily, the ultra rapid charger use will be minimal. That's especially true since even when used, it's likely to be only for a quick small top up to get home near the end of a long journey.

Those who know they will be regularly doing very long runs will probably be buying from the 500 mile range e-cars anyway.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

I have some experience dealing with Brazilians.
a decade or fifteen years ago, the Brazilian Government, .. decided to subsidise a year abroad for a large number of students. We would have had numbers of Engineering students. Brazil was flush with money at the time.. the BRIC economic boom etc , and had a surfeit of students and had not budgeted building college places, so subsidising a year abroad was a cost effective temporary solution. Anyway after 3 years the boom collapsed, and these students were marooned , and some who had completed their studies came back to Europe. Obviously Portugal ,was a favoured location, for those with only Portuguese, as was Ireland ,for those wanting to improve their English, as was Germany for others.
We have had a significant number of these Brazilians , qualified engineering graduates operating in the grey or black economy..or unskilled jobs. Visas are not required from Brazil , but since they are outside the EU, getting employment is difficult. So qualified graduates would be tourist rickshaw drivers (eBike rickshaws ,without insurance etc).
A committee I am on, is accrediting, for our Chartered institute , on an individual basis, their academic and engineering work experience ,so that where appropriate, they can be recognised as proper engineers . Once accredited, they can get work papers and join the economy.
I suspect that Hatties gentleman is one of those marooned.

I have no idea if he is a highly qualified engineer, who initially commenced his studies in Portugal because his language skills were Portuguese based, but when the funding ran out he became marooned. Woosh's summary doesn't give that level of detail.

We can only work with what we know. He's from Brazil, he drives a lorry and he prefers the UK to Portugal because the benefits system is more generous here in the UK. Thats's where the information provided begins and ends. We can't start embellishing the story with fabricated information in order to make it fit our particular outlook.

 

[oldgroaner]

The key point, which you are missing, is that it’s the benefit system which brought him to the U.K. He stated that to Hattie. There is something fundamentally wrong with that situation.

Don't you like him looking after his wallet?

 

[oldgroaner]

Front page news Boris now wants to give the poorer people tax cuts.
What logic is there in doing that at this critical moment in time?
And he was voted in as the safest alternative?

Here is a man who is trying to sweeten the voters and gain popularity as a cynical ploy when caution and circumspection are absolutely the only sensible way to proceed.
Like his moron adviser Boris is dangerous to the future of the economy.
Squandering resources is a lunatic policy at this time.

 

[flecc]

We can't start embellishing the story with fabricated information in order to make it fit our particular outlook.

Could you please tell our politicians that?
.