Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

I know where this is going. Yes, much to my shame, I do. I find the thought of animals being transported to a slaughterhouse distressing. I hope they aren’t frightened or suffer, but that’s probably wishful thinking. I should give up on meat.

You eat meat because it brings you pleasure. Just like the people who go on hunts. We all do things because they make us feel good. It's human nature.

If you give up meat - btw - it will be because it makes you feel good (to give it up). So there is no escape by suddenly changing into what you might think is the more ethical position.

 

[OxygenJames]

Those who do not tolerate other cultures are by definition racist.

Do you think all cultures are equal? What about cultures that promote violence/intolerance towards certain LGBT groups? Should we tolerate those?

 

[OxygenJames]

You eat meat because it brings you pleasure. Just like the people who go on hunts. We all do things because they make us feel good. It's human nature.

If you give up meat - btw - it will be because it makes you feel good (to give it up). So there is no escape by suddenly changing into what you might think is the more ethical position.

This has some interesting arguments on both sides:

Arguments for and against fox hunting - The Student Room

www.thestudentroom.co.uk

 

[oldgroaner]

Not a very good guess so no bonus point for you.

It's not a guess

 

[Zlatan]

That's the bit he can't grasp. There was / is no alternative to the Conservatives.

Unfortunately the dogma he demonstrates in his reluctance to watch videos, refusal to listen to others and label any disagreeing as idiots is exactly the same as that shaping our current labour party. Neither will change.
Just look at the likely next leader of Labour. Same old, same old.
The irony is its this very attitude that has helped give us a Tory government with an 80 majority. Without the OGs and Agnews we wouldnt have Boris.
Its the countries reaction to been lectured at, spoken down to and patronized that has made Boris appear attractive. (In a political sense)

 

[OxygenJames]

It's not a guess

So here we have OG who now thinks he knows the future. He has so bought into his own 'rightness' he thinks he knows what's going to happen.

But is he really as sure as he makes out?

If he really did know the future as well as he thinks he does he'd have put a massive amount of money on the election and with the proceeds could afford to sort out the more challenging aspects of his personal life.

But no. He's not actually that sure.

It's an act - a fake - a mirage.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG lives in a fantasy land. That way he can sit back and criticise - never having to take responsibility for making a decision.

He says voting Tory was a mistake - that this government is a mistake. But he does not consider what the alternative was - or if he does he has no clue about the economic or cultural consequences.

No - he does not have to consider what would have been the greater mistake - in his fantasy world he is right and everybody else is wrong.

I'm not convinced it would have been a greater mistake, and in any case another referendum would have limited Corbyn's room to manouvre.
Now your votes have committed the country to whatever insanity Cummings employs via his glove puppet.

You flatter yourself yet vote for the likes of Boris who is nothing more that Cumming's glove puppet this line of yours fits Cummings precisely.
"in his fantasy world he is right and everybody else is wrong. "
And you attempt to be critical of me?
I'm not impressed with the grasp of economic and cultural forces than a stooge of the Adam Smith Institute can scrape up.
What does it amount to after all?
You voted in a front man with the morals of a rat, driven by an egomaniac, and all to protect the assets of the rich and make America great again
And your woolly clown is claiming to employ the same expensive policies you cried out against Labour doing.

 

[oldgroaner]

Unfortunately the dogma he demonstrates in his reluctance to watch videos, refusal to listen to others and label any disagreeing as idiots is exactly the same as that shaping our current labour party. Neither will change.
Just look at the likely next leader of Labour. Same old, same old.
The irony is its this very attitude that has helped give us a Tory government with an 80 majority. Without the OG's and Agnews we wouldnt have Boris.
Its the countries reaction to been lectured at, spoken down to and patronized that has made Boris appear attractive. (In a political sense)

I didn't watch the video because I really don't give a damn about making excuses for the Labour defeat,
Keep your precious Labour party and have it for breakfast, it is no longer relevant is it?

And where did you get this rubbish?
"
Without the OG's and Agnews we wouldnt have Boris.
Its the countries reaction to been lectured at, spoken down to and patronized that has made Boris appear attractive. (In a political sense)"

We have perhaps a dozen people watching this thread, stop being utterly silly.
Boris got in because people voted for him.
They believed the lies and propaganda , just as you did when you voted for Brexit
Here is one of those videos, but the main one that promised cheaper food and more jobs has disappeared off the internet !

If promises aren't kept there will be trouble, so we had better see those promises come true

 

[Zlatan]

I didn't watch the video because I really don't give a damn about making excuses for the Labour defeat,
Keep your precious Labour party and have it for breakfast, it is no longer relevant is it?

And where did you get this rubbish?
"
Without the OG's and Agnews we wouldnt have Boris.
Its the countries reaction to been lectured at, spoken down to and patronized that has made Boris appear attractive. (In a political sense)"

We have perhaps a dozen people watching this thread, stop being utterly silly.
Boris got in because people voted for him.
They believed the lies and propaganda , just as you did when you voted for Brexit
Here is one of those videos, but the main one that promised cheaper food and more jobs has disappeared off the internet !

If promises aren't kept there will be trouble, so we had better see those promises come true

Well, there we go again. Nothing if not predictable.
Wont watch, wont listen and cant see irony at accepting destruction of labour party but then moans at Tories.
OG the only possible altetnative to Tories is the Labour party. Without a viable opposition we have a one party democracy, but then you grumble at both the fact that one party is in power and what they are doing.
For over 3 years you have done nothing but moan, moan fecking moan with not a single alternative offered, on anything.
What do you want to happen OG?
And, please dont give us the normal fairy story of cancel Brexit. A viable alternative please OG?
Really, go and watch the video. Read his books. You might learn just how stupid you are sounding.
Cummings, Boris and Tories are doing no more than offering what electorate want. Thats how they get in power. Its called democracy. They are conning nobody.
Labour should listen to Goodwin, Campbell, Kinnock, and even Blair, as you should.
Use some of that due diligence you keep telling us you have. (but that might mean reading Goodwin rather than your beloved Daily Mail)

 

[oldgroaner]

So here we have OG who now thinks he knows the future. He has so bought into his own 'rightness' he thinks he knows what's going to happen.

But is he really as sure as he makes out?

If he really did know the future as well as he thinks he does he'd have put a massive amount of money on the election and with the proceeds could afford to sort out the more challenging aspects of his personal life.

But no. He's not actually that sure.

It's an act - a fake - a mirage.

Do you really think you are qualified to stand in judgement of me?
That is really hilarious!

Who are you to stand in judgement? you just voted for a bunch of incompetent loonies that ran the country so badly, it resulted in a protest vote against Austerity skewing the Referendum, and they only got away with it by blaming the EU, now by use of lies and propaganda they are back in power to make an even bigger mess?

You really don't like it when I point out the stupidity involved do you?
And yes I am that sure, it's obvious where this is going to go wrong, all the warning signs of disaster .
Not a good start Boris
Rash promises from a congenital liar of a Golden age.
obeying the whim of Cummings
No strategy on negotiating a deal other than painting himself into a corner as he has.
As to that last bit
" proceeds could afford to sort out the more challenging aspects of his personal life. "

All the money in the world can't do that

 

[flecc]

Do you think all cultures are equal? What about cultures that promote violence/intolerance towards certain LGBT groups? Should we tolerate those?

Of course I'm not advocating tolerance of criminality, I'd have thought that was self evident.
.

 

[flecc]

This has some interesting arguments on both sides:

Arguments for and against fox hunting - The Student Room

www.thestudentroom.co.uk

This will no doubt anger you.

I already know them all.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well, there we go again. Nothing if not predictable.
Wont watch, wont listen and cant see irony at accepting destruction of labour party but then moans at Tories.
OG the only possible altetnative to Tories is the Labour party. Without a viable opposition we have a one party democracy, but then you grumble at both the fact that one party is in power and what they are doing.
For over 3 years you have done nothing but moan, moan fecking moan with not a single alternative offered, on anything.
What do you want to happen OG?
And, please dont give us the normal fairy story of cancel Brexit. A viable alternative please OG?
Really, go and watch the video. Read his books. You might learn just how stupid you are sounding.
Cummings, Boris and Tories are doing no more than offering what electorate want. Thats how they get in power. Its called democracy. They are conning nobody.
Labour should listen to Goodwin, Campbell, Kinnock, and even Blair, as you should.
Use some of that due diligence you keep telling us you have. (but that might mean reading Goodwin rather than your beloved Daily Mail)

Poor memory again I did offer an alternative remember? coalition governments where all MP's get a part.
All MP's represent those who voted for them, it's madness when almost half are unable to take any part in Governing the country because of party politics.
Party politics are a thing of the past, time we moved on.
Completely democratic.
Whereas your imagination starts and stops at same old, same old
Forever.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well, there we go again. Nothing if not predictable.
Wont watch, wont listen and cant see irony at accepting destruction of labour party but then moans at Tories.
OG the only possible altetnative to Tories is the Labour party. Without a viable opposition we have a one party democracy, but then you grumble at both the fact that one party is in power and what they are doing.
For over 3 years you have done nothing but moan, moan fecking moan with not a single alternative offered, on anything.
What do you want to happen OG?
And, please dont give us the normal fairy story of cancel Brexit. A viable alternative please OG?
Really, go and watch the video. Read his books. You might learn just how stupid you are sounding.
Cummings, Boris and Tories are doing no more than offering what electorate want. Thats how they get in power. Its called democracy. They are conning nobody.
Labour should listen to Goodwin, Campbell, Kinnock, and even Blair, as you should.
Use some of that due diligence you keep telling us you have. (but that might mean reading Goodwin rather than your beloved Daily Mail)

Sorry old chap but this pointless going over the reasons Labour lost is missing the point entirely.
The train wreck that Brexit will become will remove power from the Tory party, until then Labour can muck about as mush as they like.

 

[50Hertz]

The train wreck that Brexit will become will remove power from the Tory party, until then Labour can muck about as mush as they like.

I don’t think so. Labour will still be twatting around with unelectable clown MPs, the Conservatives will blame the EU for the negative aspects of Brexit, the public will believe them, the Conservatives will be voted back in.

 

[OxygenJames]

Of course I'm not advocating tolerance of criminality, I'd have thought that was self evident.

But that is what some cultures advocate - are we to tolerate them too?

 

[Zlatan]

I don’t think so. Labour will still be twatting around with unelectable clown MPs, the Conservatives will blame the EU for the negative aspects of Brexit, the public will believe them, the Conservatives will be voted back in.

There wont be a viable, electable opposition in foreseeable future.
Lets face it how on earth could Tories be worse than they were with May and Labour couldnt beat them.
Its been said for months now. For our democracy to wotk at all it needs an electable, viable second party. Without one its no longer a democracy. We havent had an opposition party for 3 years now and it looks like we wont be gettiing one. It doesnt matter what the second party is called but system needs one. At moment we have one major, dominant party and 4 or 5 also rans. The dominant party in that situation can almost do as it pleases.
Thank Corbyn, Momentum, Unite and McCluskey for that.
How on earth electorate is to blame when we had choice of Tories or the shambles called labour?
If we are in a situation its because of the dogmatic, idealistic, refusing to listen, refusing to open its eyes, stupid luvvie left in its London bubble.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don’t think so. Labour will still be twatting around with unelectable clown MPs, the Conservatives will blame the EU for the negative aspects of Brexit, the public will believe them, the Conservatives will be voted back in.

Things are not so simple as that
"“The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”
There is far more at stake this time and if it goes wrong the public will be seeking someone to blame.

 

[flecc]

But that is what some cultures advocate - are we to tolerate them too?

Same argument, same answer, if we're speaking of what is unquestionably criminal.

I add that proviso since we have at times regarded as criminal things that weren't, e.g. homosexuality, and also regarded with approval things that were criminal, e.g. slavery.

In other words, value judgements are necessary.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Things are not so simple as that
"“The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”
There is far more at stake this time and if it goes wrong the public will be seeking someone to blame.

Yep, they, ll blame Corbyn. He didnt oppose leaving, Tories or Boris. Public will remember, and be reminded if its the case, Corbyn hasnt supported a single EU initiative in 25 years and he had leave in his 2017 manifesto but got annhilated in 2019 when he didnt..
Besides, come on OG, all Tories will do if it goes arse over elbow is point at Diane Abott and ask "Do you really think this MP can get country out of an economic mess".
No matter what happens now Labour as it stands will never ever get in power.
And what a terrible stand for you to take. You want country to fail so Labour can get power. I dont. I want country to prosper and Labour to win on its own merit, not be awarded result for Tories failing.
I told you months ago Labour was doomed. Oh no you lot said. Corbyn playing long game, boxing clever. Blah, blah, blah. They have gone. Ruined by dogmatic left.
They havent opposed a damn thing and havent listened to any of their voters. They arent listening now, perhaps they never will.Sort of like you OG.