Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

In my days of education for those detained at her majesty's pleasure it never ceased to amaze me the number of clients who according to educational records couldnt read, write, tell time an in theory not achieve any of the criteria taken as being needed for surviving in our society. (by educationalists) Yet, these allegedly illiterate and often labelled thick could get into virtually any modern car, defeat alarms and immobilizers, get the things started and then drive in a fashion nearer Lewis Hamilton than any of us could achieve. Our measure of all educational standards is very class and background defined. The very people Danidl is talking about, I know from experience, would survive in environments we would fail in. Thats the true measure of intelligence. Measuring reading ability is simply our class, socioeconomic biased measure for confirming our own assumed superiority.
Try surviving in an inner city depressed area to trully find what skills are required. Reading is fairly low down on list for many.
Danidl is wrong. People can and do flourish with what we would see as pitifully low standards of literacy and there is growing opportunity for them to do so.
Twenty years ago our towns and cities were littered with automated car wash machines scratching cars. All now gone, replaced by groups of young blokes washing cars properly far cheaper. Yes, probably not right but its a fact. Flecc and 50 both spot on. There is more demand than ever for such work.

 

[oyster]

You might be surprised at how capable functionally illiterate people can be. I certainly have been on a few occasions, people can be very clever in cunning ways at hiding their disadvantages.

Remember that universal education is very recent, for many centuries vast numbers of illiterate people got by just fine, creating the country we live in.
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I wasn't for a moment meaning that those who struggle with literacy are unable to perform many roles. Just that the way organisations like Network Rail recruit seem to suggest that literacy is an absolute requirement. And, given the need to receive instructions and report issues, that might be reasonable. Maybe I am missing the roles which do not have any literacy requirement but most say:

Good communication skills, both in person and in writing

 

[flecc]

Maybe I am missing the roles which do not have any literacy requirement but most say:

Good communication skills, both in person and in writing

Yes that's true of large organisations, but what is practiced is often not what is preached. Then the three tyrants of practicality, availability and expediency can and often do come into play to get the job done.
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[oyster]

I see BJ is still going on about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland. Furthermore, is saying the EU should/will pay for it.

To me, it sounds as viable as a garden bridge and even more expensive.

 

[Danidl]

You might be surprised at how capable functionally illiterate people can be. I certainly have been on a few occasions, people can be very clever in cunning ways at hiding their disadvantages.

Remember that universal education is very recent, for many centuries vast numbers of illiterate people got by just fine, creating the country we live in.
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Brilliant!!. That is what I was saying from my first posting on the subject... And society was geared to accommodate that. But currently you need to get in the door.

 

[Danidl]

In my days of education for those detained at her majesty's pleasure it never ceased to amaze me the number of clients who according to educational records couldnt read, write, tell time an in theory not achieve any of the criteria taken as being needed for surviving in our society. (by educationalists) Yet, these allegedly illiterate and often labelled thick could get into virtually any modern car, defeat alarms and immobilizers, get the things started and then drive in a fashion nearer Lewis Hamilton than any of us could achieve. Our measure of all educational standards is very class and background defined. The very people Danidl is talking about, I know from experience, would survive in environments we would fail in. Thats the true measure of intelligence. Measuring reading ability is simply our class, socioeconomic biased measure for confirming our own assumed superiority.
Try surviving in an inner city depressed area to trully find what skills are required. Reading is fairly low down on list for many.
Danidl is wrong. People can and do flourish with what we would see as pitifully low standards of literacy and there is growing opportunity for them to do so.
Twenty years ago our towns and cities were littered with automated car wash machines scratching cars. All now gone, replaced by groups of young blokes washing cars properly far cheaper. Yes, probably not right but its a fact. Flecc and 50 both spot on. There is more demand than ever for such work.

No. They don't flourish they survive. They have lower life expectancy ,..which is the only objective measure of flourish . They end up in and out of prison, their choices are limited .
Now the bit about functional literacy is different.. in the BJ class, I am sure I would be viewed as functionally illiterate, as I cannot rhyme off a section of the Illiad in Greek. In a class of musicians ,either Rock or Classical , I would be viewed as totally illiterate. British statistics claim upwards of 18% functionally illiterate ,but that in my opinion is a how long is a piece of string argument .

 

[Danidl]

I don’t have a document to hand to check, but I’m pretty sure that self assembly furniture such as that supplied by Ikea doesn’t need any degree of literacy to assemble. The assembly instructions, sometimes quite complex, are pictorial and drawn in a sequence. I’ve seen training packages designed and constructed in the same way, aimed at literate and non literate workers. This type of instruction/ training can be supplemented with on-line videos and computer graphic interactive tasks. It can be done.

You are correct. In the manufacturing organisation ,I was with, there were the proper engineering drawings ,and with the arrival of digital cameras, and cheap printers , stage by stage assembly pictures showing lead dress and orientation were developed for the assembly line..

 

[flecc]

Brilliant!!. That is what I was saying from my first posting on the subject... And society was geared to accommodate that. But currently you need to get in the door.

Only in some jobs Danidl, you persist in posting this gross exaggeration. Those who don't qualify for access to the sort of jobs you speak of often don't even want those sort of jobs anyway. And the requirements for access to those jobs are frequently far from stringent, though your persistence in underrating others abilities perhaps leads you to think them too difficult for many.

As I've posted there's an abundance of jobs where the door is left open to virtually all, so few are ever disadvantaged.

The problem you spoke of exists mainly in your mind.
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[flecc]

I see BJ is still going on about a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland. Furthermore, is saying the EU should/will pay for it.

A bit like Trump's fence that the Mexicans were going to pay for, according to him. It isn't going to be completed, it can't be, and the Mexicans aren't paying a penny.

Why would th EU pay for a bridge between two non-member countries? They wouldn't of course, Johnson really is an idiot.
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[50Hertz]

I wasn't for a moment meaning that those who struggle with literacy are unable to perform many roles. Just that the way organisations like Network Rail recruit seem to suggest that literacy is an absolute requirement. And, given the need to receive instructions and report issues, that might be reasonable. Maybe I am missing the roles which do not have any literacy requirement but most say:

Good communication skills, both in person and in writing

Network Rail engage in training programs within prisons as part of habilitation. I know of at least one prison with about 300 metres of track where training is provided. The manual graft requires no literacy or numeracy skills, reporting/ work schedules are handled by a supervisor.

 

[50Hertz]

But currently you need to get in the door.

And people can and do get in the door if literacy and numeracy are not required. In fact, any requirement in an advert for a job has to be a Genuine Occupational Requirement. If you state mandatory skills or abilities which are not GORs, it can lead to trouble.

Why can’t you understand?

 

[oyster]

A bit like Trump's fence that the Mexicans were going to pay for, according to him. It isn't going to be completed, it can't be, and the Mexicans aren't paying a penny.

Why would th EU pay for a bridge between two non-member countries? They wouldn't of course, Johnson really is an idiot.
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Something inside me wondered what would happen if Scotland goes indy and joins the EU. Just who would be paying for a bridge then?

Other than NI itself, the beneficiaries would substantially be EU embers. (Not to discount NI but, in volume, possibly not sufficient to justify the bridge.) And how much would E&W benefit, if at all? Oh!, of course, W could go indy as well.

 

[flecc]

Something inside me wondered what would happen if Scotland goes indy and joins the EU. Just who would be paying for a bridge then?

Other than NI itself, the beneficiaries would substantially be EU embers. (Not to discount NI but, in volume, possibly not sufficient to justify the bridge.) And how much would E&W benefit, if at all? Oh!, of course, W could go indy as well.

I don't think that bridge could ever be justified, given how small the economic units are. Northern Ireland under 1.9 millions, Southern under 5 millions, and Scotland around the same.

The very poor road and rail infrastructure throughout Great Britain hardly helps the case.
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[Danidl]

Something inside me wondered what would happen if Scotland goes indy and joins the EU. Just who would be paying for a bridge then?

Other than NI itself, the beneficiaries would substantially be EU embers. (Not to discount NI but, in volume, possibly not sufficient to justify the bridge.) And how much would E&W benefit, if at all? Oh!, of course, W could go indy as well.

A bridge between NI and Scotland is a nonsense . Technically possible , incredibly expensive and only worthwhile if it were needed for strategic defense... As the Nantes Brest Canal in 18th century France.
And yes NI might qualify as an EU ember .
One of the Peace dividends was an intended bridge East of Newry which would join the Cooley region in RoI to the Mournes of NI ,and make a lovely tourist trail. It has died a death, and it was only a few hundred metres . We have a ferry instead.

 

[50Hertz]

A bridge between NI and Scotland is a nonsense . Technically possible , incredibly expensive and only worthwhile if it were needed for strategic defense... As the Nantes Brest Canal in 18th century France.
And yes NI might qualify as an EU ember .
One of the Peace dividends was an intended bridge East of Newry which would join the Cooley region in RoI to the Mournes of NI ,and make a lovely tourist trail. It has died a death, and it was only a few hundred metres . We have a ferry instead.

A bridge would be great fun. Let’s build it.

 

[flecc]

A bridge would be great fun. Let’s build it.

Not sure, perhaps we could practice with one to the Isle of Wight first?
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[oldgroaner]

It would really mess with your head if it all turned out well wouldn't it! Ha. You really are a card.

I would be delighted to be proved wrong

 

[oldgroaner]

The truth is - you'd actually be happier if it all failed.

You'd prefer to be right than be happy.

No, the problem that I can’t see this experiment of yours being anything other than a failure. It has too many incompetent’s. liars. Fakes and swindlers on the make, and they have no idea of how vulnerable they have made the country

 

[Zlatan]

45,003

 

[oldgroaner]

Whatever the problem is it's only a problem when you're thinking about it.

I'll just leave that one right there for you to ponder.

That's the sort of answer I would expect from someone who only has trivial problems that can be resolved,and isn't very bright if they think dumb stupidity and blissful ignorance pass for wisdom.
Better to apply brains to a problem that such a poor strategy as you suggest.

I'll just leave that one right there for you to ponder.