Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Our system is set up so that most of us have to work our 40 hours a week for £8.21 an hour or not much more. That is supposed to be sufficient incentive to motivate a workforce of millions.

Whereas those who, apparently, were born entrepreneurs or lucky inheritors, are only motivated by returns so staggeringly large newspapers spend much time trying to assess how much they are worth. This, of course, is defined as affordable.

Let's face it, making money seems almost entirely based on establishing monopolies and oligopolies - not anything super-amazing in the development and brains departments.
Sorry, also taking illegal dividends and failing to pay tax and NI:

A Conservative parliamentary candidate who has been praised by Boris Johnson is facing questions over why he received an illegal dividend from a security firm that went into administration owing £271,000 in tax.

Stuart Anderson, who is trying to overturn a Labour majority of 2,185 in Wolverhampton South West, was a director and major shareholder of Anubis Associates for eight years until 2013 when the firm collapsed.

The firm, which trained security guards, was wound up by administrators who noted that Anderson had received more than £54,000 in unlawful dividends. He later repaid £2,000.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/22/tory-candidate-got-illegal-dividend-from-firm-that-went-bust

Funny how the tories claim to check the backgrounds of candidates so thoroughly before they are adopted. Perhaps that is just to make sure they are signed up members of the grab-everything-you-can squad with a track record of greed?
 
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50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
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Main reason I voted Brexit was after driving around Europe, specifically France, I came to conclusion we were getting a raw deal. We are, but its not at hands of EU. I was wrong.
France spends 30% of GDP (approx 500 billion euros) per year on social care. They seem to be competing quite well with us???
Yes, aspects of Corbyn frighten me. His marxist tendencies, I even agree he, s anti semitic. But his spending on Health, Education, etc etc will only make the cost on par with many other EU countries.
I think the rich may dessert us but thats their business. We have a moral duty to at least try and reduce our growing financial inbalance. Will Boris and Smogg? Nope.
Look in our Schools, on our roads, in our hospitals, talk to social workers, talk to prison officers they are all desperately short of cash.
Then look at the Rooneys, Zoe Balls, Tess Daleys, etc etc earning millions and doing feck all,and actually taking part in tax avoidance scams.The tax Rooney and Carr avoided would have kept a hundred folk on welfare. We dont accuse those of being a burden on country,just those out of work or luck (or living in Barnsley)
Yes, Corbyn might bankrupt us. Parts of our country and society are already there.
Let him spend some cash. The country needs it.
Notice Prince Andrew's costs to country are all ignored. The financial and moral ones. Wonder how many doctors his wages would pay?
‘The other EU countries spending all of this money are getting a much larger portion of it from industry than Corbyn can ever hope to achieve. They are also much more likely to be spending it efficiently with more of it going to the coal face of services. In the U.K. Corbyn‘s spending is going to hit ordinary working people very hard, and I don‘t think they will get value for money.

Just one tiny example. I know for a fact that a police force spent £1.4 million / year on interpreters a few years ago. Multiply that by all police forces, health care organisations & government departments.

Go to France and try for the same service. Earlier this year, I attended a consultation with a friend at a hospital in Pau. My friend speaks French very well, but the consultant was using technical language to describe her condition. She asked if he could use some English to help her understand. In perfect English, he said no, because if he did, he would need to speak German to the German, Italian to the Italian........ She tells me this is the case everywhere you go, even the police. I witnessed another example from the police, so I know that to be true.

So efficiency and no expenditure on peripheral services seems to be the order of the day in France. I bet there isn’t an equality unit, a social inclusion unit or a women’s integrated network group funded in the French health system.

This is why we will always spend huge sums and achieve nothing in return.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
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‘The other EU countries spending all of this money are getting a much larger portion of it from industry than Corbyn can ever hope to achieve. They are also much more likely to be spending it efficiently with more of it going to the coal face of services. In the U.K. Corbyn‘s spending is going to hit ordinary working people very hard, and I don‘t think they will get value for money.

Just one tiny example. I know for a fact that a police force spent £1.4 million / year on interpreters a few years ago. Multiply that by all police forces, health care organisations & government departments.

Go to France and try for the same service. Earlier this year, I attended a consultation with a friend at a hospital in Pau. My friend speaks French very well, but the consultant was using technical language to describe her condition. She asked if he could use some English to help her understand. In perfect English, he said no, because if he did, he would need to speak German to the German, Italian to the Italian........ She tells me this is the case everywhere you go, even the police. I witnessed another example from the police, so I know that to be true.

So efficiency and no expenditure on peripheral services seems to be the order of the day in France. I bet there isn’t an equality unit, a social inclusion unit or a women’s integrated network group funded in the French health system.

This is why we will always spend huge sums and achieve nothing in return.
Perhaps we have inefficiencies other countries dont? I dont believe that.
Yes, we can quote individual examples to back either scenario up. My daughter has just competed in World Extrication Recue. (In France) She won her section. (She, s a world champion paramedic for standard trauma, I, m not sure either but there you go)
The interesting point is that UK service was held up as bastion of good practice and efficiency. Especially ironic when you consider how service has been treated by Tories.(Grenfell wasnt helped by closure of so many stations) Personnel have had retirement ages raised and their reward for the difficult job? Poor pay, abused by public and scapegoats for Government to deflect fact flammable matetials fastened on buildings to save money for some rich organisation.
And BTW 30% of GDP is 30% of GDP, immaterial of its source. France snd UK have very similar GDPs. (Agreed France is more industry bssed, ours more services, and who is to blame for that)
Our entire infrastucture is strained to breaking. Roads, Rail, Health, Education and Welfare need vast investment. Investment not cost.
Its a complete travesty when we accept it as normal people sleeping in cardboard boxes in our town centres, even more so when folk claim we cant afford to change things. We need our second homes and foreign holidays?
I have been lucky. Always been in work, and ran two moderately succesful businesses but I do see it as
a duty to pay a fair amount back for the less fortunsae. I, m not sure we do that under our Tories at moment.
System is set up to keep the rich rich and the siper rich as something for us to aspire to. System is inherently unfair. Corbyn might address that. BJ wont.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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‘The other EU countries spending all of this money are getting a much larger portion of it from industry than Corbyn can ever hope to achieve. They are also much more likely to be spending it efficiently with more of it going to the coal face of services. In the U.K. Corbyn‘s spending is going to hit ordinary working people very hard, and I don‘t think they will get value for money.

Just one tiny example. I know for a fact that a police force spent £1.4 million / year on interpreters a few years ago. Multiply that by all police forces, health care organisations & government departments.

Go to France and try for the same service. Earlier this year, I attended a consultation with a friend at a hospital in Pau. My friend speaks French very well, but the consultant was using technical language to describe her condition. She asked if he could use some English to help her understand. In perfect English, he said no, because if he did, he would need to speak German to the German, Italian to the Italian........ She tells me this is the case everywhere you go, even the police. I witnessed another example from the police, so I know that to be true.

So efficiency and no expenditure on peripheral services seems to be the order of the day in France. I bet there isn’t an equality unit, a social inclusion unit or a women’s integrated network group funded in the French health system.

This is why we will always spend huge sums and achieve nothing in return.
As against the Conservative who pocket huge sums and give nothing in return?
Are you sure you want to continue down this line?
Brexit happened because of Tory Austerity
Your answer is more of the same?
That is insane, what will happen is all too obvious and avoidable
You don't cure a hangover by drinking Methylated Spirits.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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‘The other EU countries spending all of this money are getting a much larger portion of it from industry than Corbyn can ever hope to achieve. They are also much more likely to be spending it efficiently with more of it going to the coal face of services. In the U.K. Corbyn‘s spending is going to hit ordinary working people very hard, and I don‘t think they will get value for money.

Just one tiny example. I know for a fact that a police force spent £1.4 million / year on interpreters a few years ago. Multiply that by all police forces, health care organisations & government departments.

Go to France and try for the same service. Earlier this year, I attended a consultation with a friend at a hospital in Pau. My friend speaks French very well, but the consultant was using technical language to describe her condition. She asked if he could use some English to help her understand. In perfect English, he said no, because if he did, he would need to speak German to the German, Italian to the Italian........ She tells me this is the case everywhere you go, even the police. I witnessed another example from the police, so I know that to be true.

So efficiency and no expenditure on peripheral services seems to be the order of the day in France. I bet there isn’t an equality unit, a social inclusion unit or a women’s integrated network group funded in the French health system.

This is why we will always spend huge sums and achieve nothing in return.
This is not the reason we have a problem and you know it, just more right wing excuses.
The Conservatives are simply incompetent and dishonest when dealing with public finances, like Brexit itself just more lies, false promises, and hoping people will forget their past performance which has been dire.
As an example they brought in a policy that means the elderly have to pay for care homes by selling their property, realised this was losing them support and promised in the 2015 manifesto that this would be immediately ended.
Nothing happened and now they are making the same promise again.
Liars
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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‘I don’t know what to say. There is a lot of truth in the above, and equally, if you remove someof my deliberate exaggeration, truth in what I say. The outlook is bleak, very bleak.
Absolutely! I couldn't agree more.
But it will pass
 

50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
2,199
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This is not the reason we have a problem and you know it, just more right wing excuses.
The Conservatives are simply incompetent and dishonest when dealing with public finances, like Brexit itself just more lies, false promises, and hoping people will forget their past performance which has been dire.
As an example they brought in a policy that means the elderly have to pay for care homes by selling their property, realised this was losing them support and promised in the 2015 manifesto that this would be immediately ended.
Nothing happened and now they are making the same promise again.
Liars
I can’t argue with you, that’s why the situation is so hopeless and organisations like BXP do well, people think they offer an alternative.
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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Nooooooo. Have you gone insane man?

We do need to spend money on all of those things that you list, but only money that’s affordable. Corbyn is planning to borrow the money, which they will then squander on committees, focus groups, inclusion units and all sorts of other nonsense. We will end up with nothing except a massive debt which will consume the entire government revenue just servicing interest payments. The IFS have stated that the numbers don’t make sense. Labour is an option infinitely more dangerous than Brexit alone.

We need to start from the ground upwards by building businesses and industry to generate the funds to pay for all of this. Anything less is total insanity.

You are brainwashed by tory propaganda.

You are not special in this fact sadly. Over half of the voting population are as thick and scared as you.

I will be voting Labour. I always was. I cannot stand Corbyn but he represents hope not lies.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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I see the tories are now saying they want to impose an extra stamp duty on foreign property purchases of 3%.

I suggest that we should consider a perpetual tax of some sort, not just at change of ownership. Could call it something like "rates" and base it on a property value.

And just what did a former mayor of London say in this issue?

When he was London mayor, Boris Johnson said it would be wrong to "slam the door on the right of overseas residents to buy homes in London - notwithstanding the effect they may have in some parts of prime London on the market".

Entirely arguable that non-residents might be allowed to buy property. But having a right to do so???
 
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Fingers

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Feb 9, 2016
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I see the tories are now saying they want to impose an extra stamp duty on foreign property purchases of 3%.

I suggest that we should consider a perpetual tax of some sort, not just at change of ownership. Could call it something like "rates" and base it on a property value.

And just what did a former mayor of London say in this issue?

When he was London mayor, Boris Johnson said it would be wrong to "slam the door on the right of overseas residents to buy homes in London - notwithstanding the effect they may have in some parts of prime London on the market".

Entirely arguable that non-residents might be allowed to buy property. But having a right to do so???

You can't use quotes by Johnson in the past.

It's not fair.

You can't even quote him from a week ago. Ask his girlfriends.

Just live in the moment like Tilson does. Fingers in the ears and vote Tory.

It's the only way to be sure.
 

50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
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You are brainwashed by tory propaganda.

You are not special in this fact sadly. Over half of the voting population are as thick and scared as you.

I will be voting Labour. I always was. I cannot stand Corbyn but he represents hope not lies.
Good, you vote Labour and I’ll vote Conservative. Then if we all do the same, we might end up with a hung parliament and Brexit put to a second referendum. Good work, keep it up.
 
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Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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Good, you vote Labour and I’ll vote Conservative. Then if we all do the same, we might end up with a hung parliament and Brexit put to a second referendum. Good work, keep it up.

I'm voting because I want change.

You are voting because you are happy with now.

Big difference. The only way of a second referendum you pretend to want is to vote Labour.

You really come across confused. You hate foreigners but you also realise leaving the EU might actually affect you.

It's like a Turing test for racists and you are stuck in an eternal loop.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Entirely arguable that non-residents might be allowed to buy property. But having a right to do so???
The more I think about that the more it is crazy that people who have no right whatsoever to come to the UK, would never be allowed in or would be deported as soon as they were found, criminals, actors for foreign governments, and others who do not in any way uphold the UK's interests, could be deemed to have a right to buy property here.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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The more I think about that the more it is crazy that people who have no right whatsoever to come to the UK, would never be allowed in or would be deported as soon as they were found, criminals, actors for foreign governments, and others who do not in any way uphold the UK's interests, could be deemed to have a right to buy property here.
Most countries have a requirement in law that property.. or real estate, what the continentals call" immobiles ", can only be purchased by citizens. With property comes the duty to pay taxes and the right to elect political representation. So generally a non citizen needs to have a legal contract with a citizen who owns the property as a proxy. What the EU did was to assign a right to any citizen of the 28 member countries to own property in any of the 28 countries.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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The more I think about that the more it is crazy that people who have no right whatsoever to come to the UK, would never be allowed in or would be deported as soon as they were found, criminals, actors for foreign governments, and others who do not in any way uphold the UK's interests, could be deemed to have a right to buy property here.
It isn't about rights, fairness, logic or sanity, its only about money. Every large property purchase is money coming in, invested in this country, and that's all the Tories care about, getting richer.
.
 

50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
2,199
2,403
You really come across confused. You hate foreigners but you also realise leaving the EU might actually affect you.

It's like a Turing test for racists and you are stuck in an eternal loop.
Whereabouts on here did I say that I hate foreign people? Show me please.

You really are a very stupid person that rhymes with stunt. I pity any child with such a twat for a father. It will stand no chance in life.
 
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