Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Britannica Money

www.britannica.com

Send that to NHS, Schools, Toyota, Nissan, International Harvester etc etc see what they say..
The NHS currently has a deficit of 30,000 nurses. So, Corbyn comes along and drops working week by 20%. Result, we, d need another 20% more to just cover the time dropped.
Its a different argument suggesting productivity goes up, for many industries it simply does not apply.
A nurse, teacher, social worker and many other must have their time covered even if productivity rises.
Are kids going to 4 day week, if not, they still need supervission.
It has simply not been thought through. MPs could drop to 2 day week and feck all would happen. See what happens at your local comp if teachers dont roll up Fridays.
Agreed for bolting things together folk might work harder over 4 days compared to 5 but that represents a tiny proportion of our work force. Shops? Extra closing days? I doubt it. Garage mechanics? Petrol stations? Power stations? Just switch off an extra day?Police? Ambulance drivers? Emergency Services? (Fire service already do 4 on 4 offf so they probably wouldnt be affected??)
Its ludicrous. A lovely idea. No more.

 

[Danidl]

Actually I suspect the very opposite. Corbyn will have to borrow two or 3 times more than Tories. He, ll cause a massive exodus of rich, cause utter devastation accross industry, including NHS( 4 day week will require 20% more of every type of worker, skilled or otherwise). Yes, underprivileged will be targeted for a better lot but how long will that last with a failing economy.
Corbyn simply spouts idealistic dreams he can neither afford or organise. Prime example, he will negotiate a better deal. He cant.

The argument that one cannot do the right thing because the rich oligarchs will leave and take their money with them, is so threadbare ,it demands analysis and confronting.. Unless they were actually contributing to growth, and development they were a deadweight. There is evidence that the rich were not contributing, and were creating their tax exile enclaves.. So let them go.
The reality is that there are an infinity of better deals possible with the EU, starting with full adherence to the EU common market, and remaining a full member.

 

[50Hertz]

A trap possible only because there is no alternative.
Corbyn is simply taking us further into it. Like I, ve said a hundred of times before, if only Labour had campaigned on Remaining. Fact is he is a devout Leaver and his plans of a better deal are pipe dreams.
Why aren't you leavers lobbying Corbyn telling him to campaign on Remain???

Labour should be campaigning on a Remain & Financial Responsibility agenda with a pledge to make inroads with regards to fairness.

Even a pledge to start down the route of the re-nationalisation if water & power would go down well. Instead they’ve made a complete clusterfuck of it and left voters with nowhere to go.

There was a Labour shadow minister on LBC this morning spouting in about the homeless. She has no clue whatsoever about the size of the problem, where the homeless hot-spots are and hence the costs involved. I mean absolutely clueless, she made a complete fool of herself. This is the problem, people correctly believe Labour to be full as clueless imbeciles such as this woman. As if you go on national radio, for an interview, so utterly unprepared and clueless about your specialist subject.

 

[Danidl]

Britannica Money

www.britannica.com

The question not explored in that factual article was whether the rise in productivity was due to changes in external factors ..like electric lighting or due to a reduction in the hours actually worked. It is a much more complex discussion than a simple yes no.

 

[Wicky]

Send that to NHS, Schools, Toyota, Nissan, International Harvester etc etc see what they say..
The NHS currently has a deficit of 30,000 nurses. So, Corbyn comes along and drops working week by 20%. Result, we, d need another 20% more to just cover the time dropped.
Its a different argument suggesting productivity goes up, for many industries it simply does not apply.
A nurse, teacher, social worker and many other must have their time covered even if productivity rises.
Are kids going to 4 day week, if not, they still need supervission.
It has simply not been thought through. MPs could drop to 2 day week and feck all would happen. See what happens at your local comp if teachers dont roll up Fridays.
Agreed for bolting things together folk might work harder over 4 days compared to 5 but that represents a tiny proportion of our work force. Shops? Extra closing days? I doubt it. Garage mechanics? Petrol stations? Power stations? Just switch off an extra day?Police? Ambulance drivers? Emergency Services? (Fire service already do 4 on 4 offf so they probably wouldnt be affected??)
Its ludicrous. A lovely idea. No more.

Agree - people in those roles are already doing more hours than they paid for, and its propped up by their good will.

https://journals.rcni.com/nursing-standard/rise-in-nhs-productivity-is-due-to-nurses-unpaid-overtime-ns.9.1.5.s3

Teachers work more unpaid overtime than anyone else

TUC analysis finds UK teachers work 9 million extra hours without pay every week

www.tes.com

Wonder why 63 per cent of Britons support a four-day full-time working week, according to YouGov data.

So to begin they could be paid for what they do and more investested in training extra staff, esp as we know overseas staff that are propping things up are leaving in droves.

 

[Zlatan]

Agree - people in those roles are already doing more hours than they paid for, and its propped up by their good will.

https://journals.rcni.com/nursing-standard/rise-in-nhs-productivity-is-due-to-nurses-unpaid-overtime-ns.9.1.5.s3

Teachers work more unpaid overtime than anyone else

TUC analysis finds UK teachers work 9 million extra hours without pay every week

www.tes.com

Wonder why 63 per cent of Britons support a four-day full-time working week, according to YouGov data.

So to begin they could be paid for what they do and more investested in training extra staff, esp as we know overseas staff that are propping things up are leaving in droves.

But however you address it Wicky you cant get around the factbif people at work spend 20% less time there in every time essential occupation (nursing for starters) you need 20% more personell. Personell that just arent there. Like you said such as NHS are already operating on goodwill, send 20% of staff home to make up their newly gained free time and it gets worse, or employ another 20%(who arent there to employ) to stand still.
Ofcourse workers vote for fewer hours, its why Corbyn has suggested it along with scrapping tuition fees. Its all dreaming, he cant do any of it. He might want to. My 5 year old grandson wants to drive my car..
Its the stupidity of our election time. MPs spouting ideal clap trap they cant give us. Corbyn is worst of lot for it.
As leader of opposition he can spout rubbish knowing full well he doesnt have to deliver anything. He is such an idealist (fantasist?) he would ruin what we have got trying to achieve impossible.
Its like OG says, they will promise free beer next.
And Corbyn isnt just talking about taxing oligarchs. Its us.. To spend on idealism.

 

[50Hertz]

Why don’t Labour pledge to print some money and then give every citizen £2.5 million pounds each? We could end poverty overnight, end homelessness, reduce the working week to zero days, all pay for our own top-notch medical treatment. The benefits are endless.

 

[daveboy]

Why don’t Labour pledge to print some money and then give every citizen £2.5 million pounds each? We could end poverty overnight, end homelessness, reduce the working week to zero days, all pay for our own top-notch medical treatment. The benefits are endless.

Because JC's biggest problem is he doesn't want to get caught in a lie, that is why he doesn't answer the leave or remain question (any answer would cost votes) where as Boris doesn't mind getting caught in a lie...he just laughs it off.

 

[flecc]

You, ll have to explain that one fingers.
Pochetino parting shot???

He's referring to those discussing in this thread currently.

It's why I'm out of it until sanity returns.
.

 

[flecc]

if people at work spend 20% less time there in every time essential occupation (nursing for starters) you need 20% more personell.

Not true, you are forgetting Parkinson's Law:

Work expands to fill the time available for its completion. A proverb coined by the twentieth-century British scholar C. Northcote Parkinson, known as Parkinson's Law. It points out that people usually take all the time allotted (and frequently more) to accomplish any task.

The NHS is no exception as I've seen for myself a few times.

And I've proved it absolutely with my employees in the past.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Not true, you are forgetting Parkinson's Law:

Work expands to fill the time available for its completion. A proverb coined by the twentieth-century British scholar C. Northcote Parkinson, known as Parkinson's Law. It points out that people usually take all the time allotted (and frequently more) to accomplish any task.

The NHS is no exception as I've seen for myself a few times.

And I've proved it absolutely with my employees in the past.
.

But lots of employment is not task based. Nurses have to carry out many tasks, but their presence is still essential when not giving out medication, emptying bed pans etc etc. Teachers still have to sit with classes when not speaking, marking books, explaining.
All your arguments, and Wicki's, are based on practical tasks and proceedures. A lorry driver needs so many hrs to drive a certain distance. On time based emloyment(which most is) a reduction in working force will require a similar increase in work force to maintain same cover, accepted not necessarily output.

 

[flecc]

accepted not necessarily output.

This last bit is the point though, if they are not working at full output due to Parkinson's Law, more staff are needed.

And I've seen plenty of examples of minimal output and staff duplication in the NHS.
.

 

[Wicky]

Things need to swing more in workers favour - working time/ hours cannot be allowed to deteriorate so it must improve. As shown it is being propped up on goodwill - I've seen it with hospital nurses doing an extra unpaid hour / missing breaks every shift to ensure overwhelming work isn't unloaded onto the next shift. Wonder why Boris was greeted so unfavourably during his hospital visits... and on school visit photo opportunities sat in classes with 7 year old kids instead of 17 year old sixth formers...

 

[Zlatan]

This last bit is the point though, if they are not working at full output due to Parkinson's Law, more staff are needed.

And I've seen plenty of examples of minimal output and staff duplication in the NHS.
.

More staff are already needed. Even if your law only required a 10% increase in workforce for a 4 day week its still utterly unachievable.
What you suggesting is making workforce 20% more efficient, so they can all haveba day off a week. Thats even dafter than Corbyn's explanation.
Please explain how lorry drivers, police, social workers, shop workers could reduce their working week by 20% without lowering their work output ny 20%.???

 

[Zlatan]

Things need to swing more in workers favour - working time/ hours cannot be allowed to deteriorate so it must improve. As shown it is being propped up on goodwill - I've seen it with hospital nurses doing an extra unpaid hour / missing breaks every shift to ensure overwhelming work isn't unloaded onto the next shift. Wonder why Boris was greeted so unfavourably during his hospital visits... and on school visit photo opportunities sat in classes with 7 year old kids instead of 17 year old sixth formers...

Imagine what it will be like with 20% fewer staff.

 

[50Hertz]

Not true, you are forgetting Parkinson's Law:

Work expands to fill the time available for its completion. A proverb coined by the twentieth-century British scholar C. Northcote Parkinson, known as Parkinson's Law. It points out that people usually take all the time allotted (and frequently more) to accomplish any task.

The NHS is no exception as I've seen for myself a few times.

And I've proved it absolutely with my employees in the past.
.

Ban meetings in the NHS. They could then work three days per week and still get more done.

 

[Zlatan]

Ban meetings in the NHS. They could then work three days per week and still get more done.

I think closing social media would help increase productivity and stop stupid comments.???

 

[50Hertz]

No BXP candidate in my area. #gutted

 

[Zlatan]

No BXP candidate in my area. #gutted

No viable candidates in mine.

 

[oldgroaner]

No BXP candidate in my area. #gutted

You can always eat your custard pie.