Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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There are two forms of ground source. .. deep source where the pipes are upwards are upwards of 2km cumulative.... Say 5 or 6 tubes of 200m depth. Soil temperature at 200 m is warmer. There were also shallow or surface types, where there are plenty of parallel tubes at a depth of 1 to 2 metre ..just below the frost line.
The trouble with any heat pumps for the future is the way large areas of high density building renders it ineffective, even self defeating, creating large zones of ever lower temperatures to extract from. That's especially true for air or shallow ground sources.
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oldgroaner

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It should be remembered that Letwin is in fact going to vote for Boris' second hand deal, he tabled the amendment to stop Boris dropping it in favour of a no deal Brexit.
 
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Danidl

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The trouble with any heat pumps for the future is the way large areas of high density building renders it ineffective, even self defeating, creating large zones of ever lower temperatures to extract from. That's especially true for air or shallow ground sources.
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Not really. High density urban environments actually work well, for air source units and even deep geo. The average temperature in a town is higher, so the temperature gradient is less, and any heat which escapes from a dwelling can be locally captured.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Hey OG! What fun huh? Well. Sort of. Everybody told Boris the EU would not re-open negotiations - like they REALLY told him. Guess what? The EU re-opened negotiations! Wow. And he got a new deal. OK - so like I said weeks back its a fudge - but then most negotiated things are. Its not quite a full Brexit but its pretty close. So here we are. And tomorrow our elected MPs get to vote! The Chinese curse I am reminded of..... to live in interesting times. Well. Let's face it. These ARE interesting times.
Indeed. Where are you? I need to humiliate a breximoron.
 
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flecc

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Not really. High density urban environments actually work well, for air source units and even deep geo. The average temperature in a town is higher, so the temperature gradient is less, and any heat which escapes from a dwelling can be locally captured.
I have to disagree. The temperature difference is only couple of degrees even in very large urban environments like central London. Heat escaping from buildings rises to escape while the colder air resulting from air heat extraction remains below and will pool in the high density building zones. That in turn will make further heat extraction from the reducing temperature air more difficult, a self defeating cycle.

There will be a similar effect with shallow depth heat extraction, closely coupled as it will be in a very high density building area.

I suspect you may not be considering the sort of building densities I am, 50 dwellings per acre being the current London guideline. Even in my over 50 year old low rise zone it's 35 per acre. In another example we have some 44 storey slender tower blocks on in my London borough, each with over 500 homes. A further one under construction is 68 storeys. Extracting heat for all those homes from such tiny footprints will be somewhat miraculous!

Of course far higher standards of insulation, heat retention and solar gathering in buildings could make a big difference, but we seem to be making no real progress in that direction, other than in a very few idealistic schemes where cost hasn't mattered. And costs can be a huge stumbling block with heat pumps. That for the small ten storey 30 home block I mentioned is £700,000 for the bore hole heat pump system only, so over £23k per flat which immensely exceeds the cost of any other heating installation. And that's on top of the £3.2 millions block refurbishment cost.
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Wicky

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Not really. High density urban environments actually work well, for air source units and even deep geo. The average temperature in a town is higher, so the temperature gradient is less, and any heat which escapes from a dwelling can be locally captured.
Goldsmith Street development in Norwich where heating bills could be as little as £ 150 a year for homes kitted out with a mechanical ventilation heat recovery system.

Timber framed homes have insulation pumped into a airtight membrane, to prevent heat loss, with triple-glazed windows.

A heat exchanger takes the heat from warm air, produced by the likes of washing machines, televisions and body heat.

It then transfers that heat to cold air, so that all rooms are a comfortable temperature.

Each property also has a radiator, just in case a boost is needed.

 
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oldgroaner

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The Beeb is playing on side today
"BBC Saturday PM project reports Starmer’s “forensic” and “widely admired” speech but plays only a few seconds of his speech. Then reports the biggest anti-Brexit march ever as “tens of thousands”. Police now saying “a million”.

Hmm!
And there was a pro Brexit rally in Manchester
"
No official figures have been released but a social media post purporting to be at the scene of the 'March for Democracy' show roughly 100 people shouting "Out out out! Brexit Brexit Brexit!" on their way to the Victoria Street start point.

"Quite embarrassing really," said Ollie Coburn, the Twitter user who posted the video.

Manchester's Hits Radio has also posted videos of the protest, with a crowd of around 200 marchers shouting "What do we want? Brexit!"

Brexit Party prospective parliamentary candidate for Islington North James Heartfield tweeted a video of the crowd walking along the pavement with the same chant."

Fascinating!
 

oldgroaner

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It gets better all the time!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-boris-johnson-extension-eu-letter-john-bercow-deal-vote-a9163081.html

Brexit: Speaker John Bercow 'is ready to sign letter' asking for extension if asked by courts or parliament

Boris Johnson facing court action on Monday if he fails to delay Brexit beyond 31 October

Commons Speaker John Bercow has said he is ready to sign the letter to Brussels asking for a delay to Brexit if the courts or parliament ask him to.

Boris Johnson’s dramatic declaration that he will not negotiate an Article 50 extension with the EU led to immediate threats of legal action from anti-Brexit MPs.

Not a good start Boris!
 
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oldgroaner

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In the Express they even support Pig ignorance by Boris and co now!
"
Bercow powerless as Boris Johnson and Tory MPs storm out of Commons – VIDEO
JOHN BERCOW was left powerless as Conservative MPs stormed out of the House of Commons as MPs voted to delay the Brexit vote under the Letwin Amendment.
By CLAIRE ANDERSON
The Speaker was left stunned as MPs left their seats as SNP’s Joanna Cherry began speaking

Truly a show of arrogant contempt, but what can you expect from them?
And the press that supports this sort of behaviour?
 
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50Hertz

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Jan 2, 2019
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In the Express they even support Pig ignorance by Boris and co now!
"
Bercow powerless as Boris Johnson and Tory MPs storm out of Commons – VIDEO
JOHN BERCOW was left powerless as Conservative MPs stormed out of the House of Commons as MPs voted to delay the Brexit vote under the Letwin Amendment.
By CLAIRE ANDERSON
The Speaker was left stunned as MPs left their seats as SNP’s Joanna Cherry began speaking

Truly a show of arrogant contempt, but what can you expect from them?
And the press that supports this sort of behaviour?
I really don’t like where we are going. The Prime Minister of this country is sticking two fingers up to the courts and the rule of law. The press are applauding this behaviour too and cheering him on. What a shameful example.

This is the same law and the same courts that the Brexidiots claim to hold in such high esteem and want it to have greater influence over their lives.

We’ve totally lost it. I hate what’s happening.
 

Woosh

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Letwin motion is Bojo's motion as amended by Letwin.
MPs voted the deal through but many MPs may not realise what happened.
No 10 confirmed that Bojo will send extension letter tonight.
He is now taking a logical step which is to push the WAB through parliament as quickly as possible.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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The Beeb is playing on side today
"BBC Saturday PM project reports Starmer’s “forensic” and “widely admired” speech but plays only a few seconds of his speech. Then reports the biggest anti-Brexit march ever as “tens of thousands”. Police now saying “a million”.

Hmm!
And there was a pro Brexit rally in Manchester
"
No official figures have been released but a social media post purporting to be at the scene of the 'March for Democracy' show roughly 100 people shouting "Out out out! Brexit Brexit Brexit!" on their way to the Victoria Street start point.

"Quite embarrassing really," said Ollie Coburn, the Twitter user who posted the video.

Manchester's Hits Radio has also posted videos of the protest, with a crowd of around 200 marchers shouting "What do we want? Brexit!"

Brexit Party prospective parliamentary candidate for Islington North James Heartfield tweeted a video of the crowd walking along the pavement with the same chant."

Fascinating!
Put not your faith In princes, and all that , but today I think (having listened to it) those of us who believe in democracy and care about the uk owe a great deal to starmer and his speech
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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I really don’t like where we are going. The Prime Minister of this country is sticking two fingers up to the courts and the rule of law. The press are applauding this behaviour too and cheering him on. What a shameful example.

This is the same law and the same courts that the Brexidiots claim to hold in such high esteem and want it to have greater influence over their lives.

We’ve totally lost it. I hate what’s happening.
I half like it. Boris is a psychopath and the mask of normality slips when he doesnt get his way, and those parts of the electorate with brain cells and some integrity get to see what really lurks below the surface
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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In the Express they even support Pig ignorance by Boris and co now!
"
Bercow powerless as Boris Johnson and Tory MPs storm out of Commons – VIDEO
JOHN BERCOW was left powerless as Conservative MPs stormed out of the House of Commons as MPs voted to delay the Brexit vote under the Letwin Amendment.
By CLAIRE ANDERSON
The Speaker was left stunned as MPs left their seats as SNP’s Joanna Cherry began speaking

Truly a show of arrogant contempt, but what can you expect from them?
And the press that supports this sort of behaviour?
Is there a list of those who walked out?

I'd love to see a recall petition on every single one of them.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
In the Express they even support Pig ignorance by Boris and co now!
"
Bercow powerless as Boris Johnson and Tory MPs storm out of Commons – VIDEO
JOHN BERCOW was left powerless as Conservative MPs stormed out of the House of Commons as MPs voted to delay the Brexit vote under the Letwin Amendment.
By CLAIRE ANDERSON
The Speaker was left stunned as MPs left their seats as SNP’s Joanna Cherry began speaking

Truly a show of arrogant contempt, but what can you expect from them?
And the press that supports this sort of behaviour?
Can someone put forward a motion to revoke A50 and sack BJ while they are all petulantly playing silly games?

Yes, I know the answer. Shame. :confused:
 
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