Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

If Political targetted advertising before the referendum was not effective as some suggest, why would anyone spend so much money on it, and with such precise timing so the message had no time to fade in the minds of the target audience?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44966969
Sorry not convinced.
It worked as expected and it's a dangerous precedent for the future.

 

[oldgroaner]

We do have one small development like that in London now.
.

Good grief flecc, what can I say? On the one hand I am delighted to hear that at last it has happened, on the other I'm sad for what we could have achieved, but lacked the courage to commit the money and resources to, because it wasn't going to turn a short term profit.

More that that we would have had to branch out into new fields and work with other companies to achieve the desired result, and such co-operation was unthinkable.

That's British Management for you.
Brexit will turn out to be another "If only" too for the same reason.

 

[Woosh]

what do you think?

John Bercow for post of PM in a national unity government?

Brexit fiasco twist as secret plan to make Speaker John Bercow PM revealed

The Speaker of the House as emerged as a shock candidate to take over in No10 if Boris Johnson’s crisis-hit Government falls.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[oyster]

And???
Besides new smokers were replacing dying ones until very recently. (way after advertising was banned)
I think you, ll find kids taking up smoking peaked post ban on advertising.

Was that also post-covering-up-the-products-in-shops? (The display of which was, obviously, a form of advertising.)

 

[oyster]

what do you think?

John Bercow for post of PM in a national unity government?

Brexit fiasco twist as secret plan to make Speaker John Bercow PM revealed

The Speaker of the House as emerged as a shock candidate to take over in No10 if Boris Johnson’s crisis-hit Government falls.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

A good headline grab - but has the story got legs?

 

[oldgroaner]

A good headline grab - but has the story got legs?

It's more likely to have skids

He's definitely the man for the job. someone none partisan, a bit like me really

 

[Zlatan]

If Political targetted advertising before the referendum was not effective as some suggest, why would anyone spend so much money on it, and with such precise timing so the message had no time to fade in the minds of the target audience?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44966969
Sorry not convinced.
It worked as expected and it's a dangerous precedent for the future.

Didnt work with most on here did it? Or perhaps you were indoctrinated by EU and Remain campaigns?
Its same old story, leavers voted as they did as a result of corrupt advertising whereas remainers had better insight and more knowledge. B S.
I suspect folk had made their minds up years before vote. Campaigns counted for nothing.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

what do you think?

John Bercow for post of PM in a national unity government?

Brexit fiasco twist as secret plan to make Speaker John Bercow PM revealed

The Speaker of the House as emerged as a shock candidate to take over in No10 if Boris Johnson’s crisis-hit Government falls.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Hes a strange outcast of a tory in one sense, but perhaps a good illustration of the value of being an outsider (independence) in another, as well as the character building value of the school of hard knocks

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Didnt work with most on here did it? Or perhaps you were indoctrinated by EU and Remain campaigns?
Its same old story, leavers voted as they did as a result of corrupt advertising whereas remainers had better insight and more knowledge. B S.
I suspect folk had made their minds up years before vote. Campaigns counted for nothing.

You, conveniently, ignore facts (such as the financial implications of a hard brexit on the poor and deliberate misinformation of brexit campaign) in making it all about opinion

 

[daveboy]

A good headline grab - but has the story got legs?

Short people need good jobs.... they have always struggled to put food on the table.

 

[oldgroaner]

Didnt work with most on here did it? Or perhaps you were indoctrinated by EU and Remain campaigns?
Its same old story, leavers voted as they did as a result of corrupt advertising whereas remainers had better insight and more knowledge. B S.
I suspect folk had made their minds up years before vote. Campaigns counted for nothing.

Dont you ever give up with the same old nonsense? the marginal win was due to a heavily invested last minute campaign aimed at a targetted audience.
Are you now saying the leave campaign didn't use lies?
How about looking at some figures?

https://www.peoples-vote.uk/comparing_the_obr_s_pre_brexit_forecast_with_the_brexit_reality

Things have certainly gone downhill haven't they? and thi is before we leave, due to the uncertainly no plan has caused
"We aren't going to leave without a plan" Gove, and who said easiest deal ever?

And now we have the ones rooting for Brexit warning us how bad it is going to be?
So the leave promises of easy deals and better times were all lies.
The remain promises were not completely accurate, but when we leave are very likely to be.

Frankly events have proved that Remainers did indeed have better insight than the leave voters did.. we saw clearly the difficulties that leave voters ignored, preferring to belive lies and promises.

Our position had been indoctrinated by the EU and remain campaigns?
First of all the EU didn't get involved in the campaign did they? and everyone agrees that the remain campaign was a poor effort based on an expectation of winning.

 

[50Hertz]

I suspect folk had made their minds up years before vote. Campaigns counted for nothing.

To some extent I agree, but not entirely. The campaign started years before the referendum with MPs blaming their own failure and underperformance on the EU. For example, they were feeding us BS about European courts interfering and preventing the U.K. to make its own laws. We saw only last week that U.K. courts reign supreme when they kicked Johnson into touch over his scheme to illegally close down parliament. We saw our parliament make a law to prevent a no deal Brexit. If you scrutinise the things you believe Brexit will bring, you will find that we have them already, it’s just that our parliament is too incompetent to capitalise on them, and so use the EU as a scapegoat.

As for immigration, the government stand no chance if reducing it. People are coming over the channel at £7K pop payable to organised criminal gangs and with the assistance of the French police. That should be dead easy to stop, but we are so pathetic, we can’t even make a half-arsed attempt at putting an end to it. Leaving the EU will make absolutely no difference.

 

[Zlatan]

To some extent I agree, but not entirely. The campaign started years before the referendum with MPs blaming their own failure and underperformance on the EU. For example, they were feeding us BS about European courts interfering and preventing the U.K. to make its own laws. We saw only last week that U.K. courts reign supreme when they kicked Johnson into touch over his scheme to illegally close down parliament. We saw our parliament make a law to prevent a no deal Brexit. If you scrutinise the things you believe Brexit will bring, you will find that we have them already, it’s just that our parliament is too incompetent to capitalise on them, and so use the EU as a scapegoat.

As for immigration, the government stand no chance if reducing it. People are coming over the channel at £7K pop payable to organised criminal gangs and with the assistance of the French police. That should be dead easy to stop, but we are so pathetic, we can’t even make a half-arsed attempt at putting an end to it. Leaving the EU will make absolutely no difference.

You make good points and likewiae I agree with some of them. As for some starting anti EU rhetoric years agothe pro EU have been doing exactly same and unfortunately much of the points made on both sides are untrue some of it is correct.
The EU is far from perfect, it is not a panecea to cure all. I thought its imperfections far worse than our own. Now I, m not so convinced. Its just been promoted in my mind to the lesser of 2 evils. Its not that the EU is good at particulary anything (all my grievences listed before, so I, m not going there again) it simply appears better than our shambolic representation of a democratic government. Thats hardly an endorsement at the moment.
Would you really trust your kids life to any of the idiots we see leading our country now? Or even any who might. I wouldnt let any of them navigate a yacht accross a harbour, let alone over an ocean.
It has put our archaic system under the spotlight, unfortunately it melted with the heat.
Seems we started a race to the bottom a few years ago. Cameron should be arrested.
The confrontational approach adopted by many, some on here, the insults, the threats, the put downs should have no place in any society. Unfortunately its becoming worse in the population at large.I, m getting rather more concerned about this aspect. Think we on here have learnt when and who to ignore.
Lets hope its the one good thing our society can show the world. We have not yet resorted to violence and riots etc. The extremists using provocative language from either side should be criticised by all.

 

[Woosh]

Leaving the EU will make absolutely no difference.

leaver elites will tell you that the money spent on the next 5 year membership fees (about 1% of our GDP, about £100 billions), will be spent on building 40 hospitals + £25 billions will be spent on roads and rails.
How are you going to argue against that?

 

[50Hertz]

leaver elites will tell you that the money spent on the next 5 year membership fees (about 1% of our GDP, about £100 billions), will be spent on building 40 hospitals + £25 billions will be spent on roads and rails.
How are you going to argue against that?

That £100 Billion, and some more besides, will be spent on mitigation of the effects of Brexit. We’ve spent nearly 10% of that and haven’t left yet.

 

[Danidl]

Didnt work with most on here did it? Or perhaps you were indoctrinated by EU and Remain campaigns?
Its same old story, leavers voted as they did as a result of corrupt advertising whereas remainers had better insight and more knowledge. B S.
I suspect folk had made their minds up years before vote. Campaigns counted for nothing.

You cannot really believe that. No amount of Marmite advertising will affect me,a confirmed Bovril drinker,but it may affect the Ovaltine person, especially if it suggests a better nights sleep. In other words, you rarely change the minds 100% , but changing 20% is feasible...
The older story is that Brexit sold HOPE and Remain was " same old same old ". . Like you I do believe a substantial number of people were set in their way,and the Leave Adverts provided confirmation, . However as the opinion polls had shown, Leaving the EU was not high on their list of priorities...but the advert campaigns made it respectable to think the unthinkable.

 

[flecc]

The removal of nearly all cigarette propoganda had little affect on numbers smoking.

This simply isn't true. In just six more recent years of the propaganda UK smoking fell by some 30% and has remained much lower since.

The overall drop in adult smoking was from 46% in 1974 at the start of the campaigns to about 16% now.

The young still take up smoking, something which is partially linked to the increases in cannabis use, but there's plenty of evidence now that many of those not also using cannabis are switching to vaping.
.

 

[flecc]

Short people need good jobs.... they have always struggled to put food on the table.

They should use steps.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

You cannot really believe that. No amount of Marmite advertising will affect me,a confirmed Bovril drinker,but it may affect the Ovaltine person, especially if it suggests a better nights sleep. In other words, you rarely change the minds 100% , but changing 20% is feasible...
The older story is that Brexit sold HOPE and Remain was " same old same old ". . Like you I do believe a substantial number of people were set in their way,and the Leave Adverts provided confirmation, . However as the opinion polls had shown, Leaving the EU was not high on their list of priorities...but the advert campaigns made it respectable to think the unthinkable.

However, discovering (say) that bovril is made from regurgitated bat droppings and guaranteed to cause melanomas might, I imagine, affect you? It's why I think a hard cliff edge brexit under the "leadership" of cummings could be good thing.

 

[Zlatan]

This simply isn't true. In just six more recent years of the propaganda UK smoking fell by some 30% and has remained much lower since.

The overall drop in adult smoking was from 46% in 1974 at the start of the campaigns to about 16% now.

The young still take up smoking, something which is partially linked to the increases in cannabis use, but there's plenty of evidence now that many of those not also using cannabis are switching to vaping.
.

Think it was more to do with banning smoking in various places and the change in society slowly seeing smoking as unacceptable. Dont think the vast majority of us are actually influenced by adverts etc, in my case makes me averse to the product being pushed. But I agree, the floating voters might well be influenced.
The recent ads for BMW (least drivers car ever built), Mercedes and Jaguar have I suspect pushed folk to Audi.
Ferrari never advertise, except on track. Which is not what we are talking about.
With the pro EU, anti EU argument I suspect we either agree with the BS we are fed are say to ourselves "utter rubbish". Just look in here flecc over the past 3 years our stances have hardly changed a jot. We are all quite set in our ways.
If I want a drivers car I, ll buy a Caterham no matter how many times BMW tell me to buy an M whatever.

People stop smoking not because they watched an advert. One day they wake up and think"I, m mortal, my parents, relatives, etc died from???? Time to stop"
Actually think vast majority are now immune to ad campaigns. There's so many.
You really think a 30 second advert on tele will have more affect on a smoker than him/her watching father/mother die of lung cancer with doctor saying it was caused by smoking. I dont think so.
There has been a gradual awakening of smoking and its effects, previous generations knew but ignored it. Times have changed. Its not down to adverts.