Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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No you are correct, the underground source water to water heat pump, is more efficient. However,the additional engineering of groundworks and maybe sterilising a section of the lawn makes the Return on Investment decisions harder. Shrubs and trees will not grow well close to the grid of brine pipes, due to lowered soil temperature. Vertical bore 100 m holes are the best method ,but also the most expensive. Using a 200 watt air fan, over truck sized radiators is the most cost effective solution...which is why ASHPs are winning out.
Incidentally my air to water Heat pump makes less noise than my neighbours oil burner
As I suspected, from your comments the modern air units seem to have conquered the noise issue, back then it was a big problem!
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Do you believe in democracy?
Which bit of my post was against it?
And don't give me the bit about the advisory only referendum being binding, and let me remind you about the fact that whatever previous parliaments decided.
Does not bind current or future ones.
Got that?
There is nothing undemocratic in my suggestion, in fact it is the only democratic way forward to ask when a deal is agreed with the EU to ask for confirmation .
Are you afraid of losing your booby prize win or something? :cool:
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Leadsom also under fire, whether valid or not:

The business secretary, Andrea Leadsom, has come under fire after it emerged she did not speak to Thomas Cook executives during increasingly frantic talks between the company and the government leading up to its collapse last week.

Records of telephone calls and meetings, seen by the Guardian, indicate that there was widespread awareness among government ministers that the 178-year-old tour operator’s finances were deteriorating for months prior to its failure.

But the documents indicate that Leadsom and ministers and officials from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) had little to no discussion with the company about its ailing balance sheet until after it had slumped into liquidation.

One source familiar with the relationship between the government and the company said BEIS, which oversees the response to business collapses such as those of Carillion and British Steel, “didn’t want a meeting and didn’t ask for one”.
They didn't want to create a "Moral principle" that a Tory Government actually gives a Tinkers Cuss about businesses.
 
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Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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Which bit of my post was against it?
And don't give me the bit about the advisory only referendum being binding, and let me remind you about the fact that whatever previous parliaments decided.
Does not bind current or future ones.
Got that?
There is nothing undemocratic in my suggestion, in fact it is the only democratic way forward to ask when a deal is agreed with the EU to ask for confirmation .
Are you afraid of losing your booby prize win or something? :cool:

Wow

It was a simple question.

Why can't you answer it?
 
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Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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Yes.

The original question upon which we voted has changed, that’s why it is fair and democratic to ask for people’s opinion on the new and revised question. If people are still happy with the new proposal, they will vote for it. You should not fear this.

I fear nothing bar nothing warm farts.

The question hasn't changed at all. The losers just will not accept the result.

You can't have democracy without the permission of the losers. This is why we are where we are.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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As I suspected, from your comments the modern air units seem to have conquered the noise issue, back then it was a big problem!
And that's not the only improvement. My car one is remarkably efficient even when the temperature is nearing zero degrees C outside, while still being quiet enough to be unobtrusive.
.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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I fear nothing bar nothing warm farts.

The question hasn't changed at all. The losers just will not accept the result.

You can't have democracy without the permission of the losers. This is why we are where we are.
The losers as you put it know the result was due to a swindle, remember the judgement

"The only reason it was not declared null and void is because it was advisory only.
Had it been mandatory it would have been annulled."

Am I to understand that under those circumstances there were both winners and losers, and not that everyone was cheated?
Why should you expect in that instance anyone to accept the result?
That is why you don't have permission of the losers
Nor should you expect it.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Do you believe in democracy?
In Parliamentary democracy, yes.

In direct democracy of the people in our complex modern world, emphatically no.

Our Brexit experience to date illustrates only too well the validity of this view.
.
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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No one should give permission to accept an illegally procured result.

It was illegal?

This is big news. Can you give me the info and I will pass it on to some very keen broadcasters. You may have just stumble upon the news scoop of the decade!

Unless you are lying?
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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It was illegal?

This is big news. Can you give me the info and I will pass it on to some very keen broadcasters. You may have just stumble upon the news scoop of the decade!

Unless you are lying?
Not again silly boy
The EU referendum was won based on a corrupt campaign, but the courts can't void the result because the referendum only advisory, according to the barrister who took the government to court.
Based on Electoral Commission findings about overspending by Vote Leage, British people living in Europe launched a legal case arguing the referendum result should in effect be set aside. Last week, Court of Appeal judges denied them permission to appeal after losing the case.

Find something else to post to be annoying, you lost this one long ago
 
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