Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Italy’s Prime Minister Conte resigns, and no one knows what comes next
The populist coalition collapses, but hard-right leader Matteo Salvini may not get the election he wants
Cant see Italy remaining in EU if Salvini ends up incharge.???
Sounds familiar doesnt it.
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I can. It will be Greece all over again when the people are asked in a referendum. Faced with losing the euro they'll back off and vote to remain.
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Some countries maintain a prudent, balanced budget (eg Norway), they don't run to the stateless billionaires every year to borrow money and they don't blame foreigners.sounds familiar doesnt it.Italy’s Prime Minister Conte resigns, and no one knows what comes next
The populist coalition collapses, but hard-right leader Matteo Salvini may not get the election he wantswww.economist.com
Greece, Italy, Spain have elected populist politicians who like to spend big to win votes, they tell their voters that theirs is a very rich country and that they (the voters) can spend the money because they are worth it!
Then a few years later, when the chickens come home to roost, guess what, they blame those who lend them the money and the EU for telling them to live within their means.
Ahhh. The world war 3 argument rears its head again.
We are leaving a trading bloc that has morphed into something more sinister. People voted to leave it.
We were told we can leave it but only if the EU can still control who we deal with and how. It also tells us how we can control our own borders and how citizens in this country have different rights to other citizens in our own country and they will govern them. It also tells us we have to pay an exorbitant fine to leave that offers zero residual benefit to the people paying it. It offers no sign of a trade deal.
As Hannan said today it's the equivalent of the EU saying to Canada you can have a deal with us but you cannot trade with the US or China unless it's our deal. And you have to have a border with Ottawa.
It's ludicrous and rightly we are saying no. No sovereign nation bar the likes of Ireland or Greece would agree to it.
Yes we can blame the incompetence of Mays tenure but the avarice of the EU is the constant here.
It's the EU that wants no deal to deter other nations leaving. Remainers pretend they are some friendly paternal and benign influence only interested in building dams, tunnels and visitor centres yet conveniently forget that in its arch capitalist ambition it leaves vast swathes of communities without jobs as it creates low laid jobs for private companies who pay little or no tax.
it's the ERG MPs, who evoke the 'Dunkirk' spirit of wartime Britain to push for 'independence'. Andrew Bridgen for example does not want to settle the bill.
We only plan to leave the EU's customs union for goodness sake.
it doesn't. If we want the EU to leave their (NI/ROI) border open for our citizens and businesses, then there are conditions attached.
It's common sense.
Agreed. It's not like we are looking for a new England.
In regard to Ireland with have ties and agreements with them that are stronger and older than the EU. If Ireland wishes to be treated like any other EU state then we should acquiesce to their leaders wishes.
I am sure there is a market for whatever you are imbibing!.
That's why I find leave promoters overselling their cause. It's one thing to claim that the EU tries to punish anyone who wants to leave, it's another thing to treat them like the enemy and we are at war. If your business partner of 43 years wants to leave you, would you stop to be their friend?
Now let's say your business partner wants to leave and set up shop next door to you and insists that because your nephew goes out with his niece, you have to have an open door for them and that any of your staff can use it too. Does it make any sense?
Even if you are OK with the open door, your ex business partner makes it known to anyone that whatever you sell or make, it'll be cheaper in their shop albeit not necessarily of the same quality as your goods. Would you be OK with that too?
apparently they do.
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No of course not. But equally I wouldn't want the other business partner telling me who I can deal with and when.
I'd also like my share of the profits if I have to pay to leave as well. I'm glad we are losing the divorce analogy as it's a false one. This is business simple as. It would be a lot simpler if we left and still maintained the respect and trust we had built up over the years and treated any new changes as they arose, not scrap the whole thing and suddenly act with the suspicion that we have suddenly morphed into an enemy. We are the same business partner but have decided to trade on our own.
I would love to know how much money the NHS would save if we charged Irish residents living here with the care they receive.
It seems there are more Irish living here than in Ireland.
I don't believe the EU tells us what to do. We can sign up any deal we like, as long as there is a hard border in NI.
Think of the NI problem as one of a divorce between NI and the ROI. They can't share the same space after the divorce. After a few years, it will become clear that NI will have to choose either to remain within the UK and accept a hard border or join the ROI. Alternatively, the ROI could leave the EU and join the UK.
if we start charging EU citizens for healthcare, most our 1 millions pensioner expats will have to sell up and come home because of healthcare cost where they live.
Irish people resident in the UK are UK taxpayers. English people resident in Ireland are Irish Taxpayers. Under the codicil of the CTA , there is free movement between our two jurisdictions. This was particularly valuable to the UK when it needed to rebuild its cities ,and was also advanteous to Ireland,when we had a chronic unemployment problem.. .
There are probably more people of Irish extraction living in the UK than in Ireland. Indeed your children,if we are to be believed,would fall into that category.
If you fall drunken on the streets of Wexford, you will be brought to Wexford County Hospital and receive expert medical treatment. You will be charged the same fee as any Irish born person.
. Now it does seem to me that you are going on a racist rant.. you have referred to Ireland in the last number of posts. This is exactly the type of campaign that the British Tabloids and British funded Irish Tabloids are encouraging... are you a useful idiot?.
Ahhh. The world war 3 argument rears its head again.
The EU has developed from day one according to treaties we signed, we are in fact leaving because out Elite class want to protect the offshore and Tax swindles that they have morphed from normal accountancy
We can leave in any way we like, but we want to keep membership benefits without payment, we have always had control of our borders.
As yet not trade deal has even been dscussed, never mind agreed
It's ludicrous and rightly we are saying no. No sovereign nation bar the likes of Ireland or Greece would agree to it.
If you make a trade deal with for instance America, do you imagine the terms of dealing with the EU will not be part of that agreement?
And if you go with WTO there won't be borders?
This has nothing to do with May or avarice on the part of the EU, that is your imagination, membership benefits have to be paid for not taken for granted as you want to do
Where so you get this tripe? the EU negotiated and signed a deal you don't like remember?
And this country lies about having full employment to the point that if you work four hours a week you are employed?
And isn't going to reduce immigration anyway, but will reduce the terms and conditions of the workforce, and is now mooting putting the retirement age to 75?
Time you stopped reading right wing lies and looked at the available facts
Sorry woosh.. I will assume a typo. But there will be no EU Deal if it includes a Hard Border with checkpoints etc on the 310 mile demarkation line.
There will be no possibility of Ireland rejoining the UK.
There is no immediate prospect of NI joining with the RoI. Under GFA terms all NI citizens have the right to be treated as Irish citizens and therefore EU citizens.
I did wonder how long I would take for you to bite.
I was simply referring to Ireland as you do to England.
The sneering isn't nice is it? The Irish get a far better deal than we do in regard the NHS. Far better. You are treated for free. We have to pay. If there is a hard border as Ireland insists then I would like it to be law that every Irish person has to show proof they are a UK citizen to receive free health care. If not Ireland gets charged.
My little boy finally received his Irish passport on Monday btw.
I think you are wrong there. the EU will negotiate a free trade deal as soon as the UK exits the block, deal or no deal.
The EU's position is clear, the backstop is there because of the existing red lines on both sides. If the UK exits with no deal, a hard border will eventually be set to 'geofence' people and goods. For example, the border agents may drive along the border and spot check for contraband or illegal immigrants.
It wouldn't work on you, the truth isn't something you understand anyway.
He works for vote Leave, that's where he gets his material.(though I suspect he does it for free on the basis they can afford better)