Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Imagine our government needs to raise taxes to pay for the care of dementia sufferers, it consults all voters with a referendum. What you think the result will be?
Since we have Conservative Government you end up selling your house to pay for the care
 
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OxygenJames

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Jan 8, 2012
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No it wasn't necessary to read any documents. Just take note of what was said by politicians in speeches quoted on the various news programs at the time. From Churchill speaking strongly in favour of European Unity onwards, the public have never taken any notice of what was being said.

They weren't interested in the subject so didn't bother to inform themselves, and it's little different now.
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So how would you organise things then? If not by democracy - how would you do it?

Remember - democracy is one man/woman one vote. Regardless of how 'educated' you think they are.

What is your system?
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Is Luxembourg or is it not a place where people and companies can hide money and benefit from secret banking, and weren't a lot of these deals done by a certain Mr Junker or is the eu just perfect.
And it is about to run afoul of the new regulations against that practice that is behind the support of the Rees Moggs of this world's desire for us to leave the EU
So what is your point?
Is the UK more perfect in that respect, when by any standards Tax evasion is worse in the offshore swindles originating in the UK than anywhere else in the world?
No
 
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Wicky

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2014
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Colchester, Essex
www.jhepburn.co.uk
JRM issued a set of standards regarding how he expects the people who work for him to communicate on his behalf. If he has developed a format for his communications, then he has every right to impose that format on those employed to communicate on his behalf.
The official transcript of parliamentary proceedings, Hansard, records more than 700 instances of Rees-Mogg using one or other of the banned words or phrases.

Expect extra scrutiny to be applied to JRM in the commons everytime he opens his erudite gob and much micky taking humour...
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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You're being a dick again. Stop it.
Just reminding people what is really behind Tufton Street and the Adam Smith supporters
What's wrong with doing that?
Your glorious leader was saying the same thing today, you know the senior one across the pond, "We can have four times as much trade with the UK" he declared.
Imagine the damage that will do to our economy!
And his glove puppet here is all for it too!
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Sheffield to Manchester needs some improvement. Must be largest cities in country without direct motorway link. But its a start. About time North had some money spent on infrastructure.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Sheffield to Manchester needs some improvement. Must be largest cities in country without direct motorway link. But its a start. About time North had some money spent on infrastructure.
Oh sure, it's just the usual hot air, and where is the money coming from?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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i recall a vote about joining the Common Market, but don't ever recall one about joining the EU.
Second reply. See this extract from Edward Heath's speech on the subject, which was widely quoted from back then. Please read it for the truth:

"Throughout my political career, if I may add one personal remark, it is well known that I have had the vision of a Britain in a united Europe; a Britain which would be united economically to Europe and which would be able to influence decisions affecting our own future, and which would enjoy a better standard of life and a fuller life. I have worked for a Europe which will play an increasing part in meeting the needs of those parts of the world which still lie in the shadow of want. I want Britain as a member of a Europe which is united politically, and which will enjoy lasting peace and the greater security which would ensue. Nor do I believe that the vision of Europe is an unworthy vision, or an ignoble vision or an unworthy cause for which to have worked. I have always made it absolutely plain to the British people that consent to this course would be given by Parliament. Parliament is the Parliament of all the people. When we came to the end of the
negotiations in 1963, after the veto had been imposed, the negotiator on behalf of India said: When you left India some people wept. And when you leave Europe tonight some will weep. And there is no other people in the world of whom these things could be said. That was a tribute from the Indians to the British. But tonight when this House endorses this Motion many millions of people right across the world will rejoice that we have taken our rightful place in a truly United Europe."

That left no doubts whatsoever in my mind as to our future unity with Europe. Sadly the general public as usual took no notice due to lack of interest in Europe, but that was and always will be their fault. No amount of false protests that "We were never told" changes that fact.

And Heath's was far from the only similar speech at the time, others have already been quoted in this thread.
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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
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Second reply. See this extract from Edward Heath's speech on the subject, which was widely quoted from back then. Please read it for the truth:

"Throughout my political career, if I may add one personal remark, it is well known that I have had the vision of a Britain in a united Europe; a Britain which would be united economically to Europe and which would be able to influence decisions affecting our own future, and which would enjoy a better standard of life and a fuller life. I have worked for a Europe which will play an increasing part in meeting the needs of those parts of the world which still lie in the shadow of want. I want Britain as a member of a Europe which is united politically, and which will enjoy lasting peace and the greater security which would ensue. Nor do I believe that the vision of Europe is an unworthy vision, or an ignoble vision or an unworthy cause for which to have worked. I have always made it absolutely plain to the British people that consent to this course would be given by Parliament. Parliament is the Parliament of all the people. When we came to the end of the
negotiations in 1963, after the veto had been imposed, the negotiator on behalf of India said: When you left India some people wept. And when you leave Europe tonight some will weep. And there is no other people in the world of whom these things could be said. That was a tribute from the Indians to the British. But tonight when this House endorses this Motion many millions of people right across the world will rejoice that we have taken our rightful place in a truly United Europe."

That left no doubts whatsoever in my mind as to our future unity with Europe. Sadly the general public as usual took no notice due to lack of interest in Europe, but that was and always will be their fault. No amount of false protests that "We were never told" changes that fact.

And Heath's was far from the only similar speech at the time, others have already been quoted in this thread.
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Too boring couldn't concentrate.
 
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