Brexit, for once some facts.

gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,592
1,069
There could be an encyclopaedia of reasons to holiday within the UK. But just what does taking back control mean if we are then confined to our own shores? It is a reduction in choice and freedom. (Leaving aside issues such as visas and being non-EU for passport control, etc.)
I thought you 'woke' sorts wanted to stop us flying about and creating carbon. So foreign holidays could be a great place to start
 
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
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you have relentlessly attacked people who voted to leave
I have attacked the lack of substance of their arguments. And when it comes to tax havens, for example, their lack of ethics or understanding. The fact that you voted leave without understanding the damage you're doing makes you a far more destructive antagonist, to this country, than I will ever be by trying to shed light on your decision to vote leave.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
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And what will we do if ref2 says leave... again... We could scream and shout, insult leavers, exagerate, moan like feck, protest, and..... demand ref3.
Of course it would still be a bad idea, so what?
Do you think because more people vote for a stupid idea, it stops being stupid, or perhaps has to be meekly accepted?
In your dreams sunshine!
For us to drop opposition to Brexit, you have to prove us wrong, not merely to get your own way.
It's as simple as that.
And at the moment there doesn't seem much chance of that, does there? with a Government of chancers, liars, reprobates, discredited past failures brought in from the cold.
And don't Forget Farage is raising funds in the US of A with his World4Brexit company, not to do anything in support of candidates for democratic election, oh dear me no.

Much worse than that, with the stated purpose of digging the dirt on anyone who opposed Brexit, with unlimited untraceable funds.
Absolutely corrupt!
That is the calibre of the Human Vermin involved with vote leave they want to completely destroy democracy and buy and sell the public by employing lies and blackmail.

Ask yourself this question
Why would any group intent on working for the public good behave like a Mafia?

The poor leave voters who have been promised a Golden Future are staring disaster in the face.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Correction of grammar and spelling will only end up in you being hoisted by your own petard. :p
I was being ironic Dave. Personally couldnt care less about grammar but Gerald has taken to pointing out my apostrophic failings...but posts nothing when Tom posts such as he did with all sorts of errors.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
I have attacked the lack of substance of their arguments. And when it comes to tax havens, for example, their lack of ethics or understanding. The fact that you voted leave without understanding the damage you're doing makes you a far more destructive antagonist, to this country, than I will ever be by trying to shed light on your decision to vote leave.
But you fail to see those same failings within EU. Just examine Luxembourg and who and why they have elevated to amongst highest GNP per capita in world.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Spain and Portugal have already said they would not have visas for UK tourists (even with no deal) Portugal even said they would open extra lanes up at passport control for people from the UK to avoid Queues. Tourism is at least one case where we can say they need us more than we need them.

Proving what exactly? is this going to make up for all those lost trade deals?
No
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Not at all he should have stood his ground and got in instead of TM. We would be out now
I doubt he would have done any better, there is no reason to think that is there?
Why should the EU have treated him with anything but the scorn he deserved?
Remember this "so brave" man ran and hid straight after the referendum, that shows his real character.
Now whoever has their hand up the back passage working this glove puppet has put the screws on him, that's all.
Don't expect any good to come of it.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,456
16,919
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Not at all he should have stood his ground and got in instead of TM. We would be out now
No we are not out because parliament does not accept Bojo's brexit.
Bojo's strategy is not to negotiate.
All he wants is another 5 years of tory rule and the EU has nothing to do with this.
He will forget that he promised 'do or die'.
If parliament still blocks brexit then he'll blame parliament and he is not going to resign.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Spain and Portugal have already said they would not have visas for UK tourists (even with no deal) Portugal even said they would open extra lanes up at passport control for people from the UK to avoid Queues. Tourism is at least one case where we can say they need us more than we need them.

That was why I left those issues to one side. We might well need visas for anything other than short stay tourism - though decisions have yet to be made and implemented.
 
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jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
But you fail to see those same failings within EU. Just examine Luxembourg and who and why they have elevated to amongst highest GNP per capita in world.
You are grasping at straws. You know as well as I do that the eu provide far greater employee, consumer protection than westminster. That it relies proportionally far less on tax havens, laundered capital. That it is a far less destabilising force in the world, less likely to be hijacked by the us for another imperialist venture that threaten world peace.
 
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gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,592
1,069
You are grasping at straws. You know as well as I do that the eu provide far greater employee, consumer protection than westminster. That it relies proportionally far less on tax havens, laundered capital. That it is a far less destabilising force in the world, less likely to be hijacked by the us for another imperialist venture that threaten world peace.
Is Luxembourg or is it not a place where people and companies can hide money and benefit from secret banking, and weren't a lot of these deals done by a certain Mr Junker or is the eu just perfect.
 

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