Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

The M25 has ended up a 125 miles long bypass

that I can agree with.
But let's pause a minute and think about having tags embedded into the lane separation lines so cars can be put into automatic driving. You can see the immediate benefits.

 

[flecc]

that I can agree with.
But let's pause a minute and think about having tags embedded into the lane separation lines so cars can be put into automatic driving. You can see the immediate benefits.

I'm afraid I can't see any benefit in encouraging even more long distance car and truck use, automated or not.

I do see very big benefits in transfering people and freight traffic to railways, both environmental and land use wise, with only very local use of roads using electric vehicles to complete their journeys.

That would mean largely saying goodbye to our current environmental and pollution problems.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Last one that got to Iran in 1973 we left there...

I read somewhere today that David Davis was being touted as Foreign Secretary...
Well that should get a laugh abroad I suppose

 

[oldgroaner]

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/project-fear-the-last-three-years-have-been-more-catastrophic-than-even-the-most-pessimistic-remainer-predicted
Project fear? The last three years have been more catastrophic than even the most pessimistic Remainer predicted


Something no leave voter will agree with
But who cares, they knew what they were voting for.

 

[Woosh]

Something no leave voter will agree with
But who cares, they knew what they were voting for.

did you watch the last episode of This Week?
they did put up a good show.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-49041133/this-week-the-end-of-an-error

Portillo reckons that BJ will get a deal much like TM's deal through parliament before the end of the year.
The brexiters won't like it, the remainers won't like it either.

 

[flecc]

Portillo reckons that BJ will get a deal much like TM's deal through parliament before the end of the year.

Exactly as I forecast some while ago, Boris Johnson once again conning Leavers, this time with May's deal, portraying it as achieving something new as I said.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

did you watch the last episode of This Week?
they did put up a good show.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/entertainment-arts-49041133/this-week-the-end-of-an-error

Portillo reckons that BJ will get a deal much like TM's deal through parliament before the end of the year.
The brexiters won't like it, the remainers won't like it either.

My prediction may yet come true then!

 

[Danidl]

With his propensity for messing up anything and also being a journalist, he'd just end up in an Iranian jail with Mrs Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, who he helped to keep imprisoned with his falsehoods.
.

Sounds like win, win win ...

 

[Danidl]

I read somewhere today that David Davis was being touted as Foreign Secretary...
Well that should get a laugh abroad I suppose

Is that the real project fear

 

[oldgroaner]

You have to wonder what will happen over the next year or so now the loonies have taken over the asylum
Even the Brexit voters can't be that thick that they imagine a government led by Boris can do anything other than make a proper "Bog hole" not merely of Brexit but running the country too
I wonder what the odds are that he will try to dress up May's deal and do a Trump on it, and on top of that convince parliament and then the Brexit punters too?

 

[Danidl]

You have to wonder what will happen over the next year or so now the loonies have taken over the asylum
Even the Brexit voters can't be that thick that they imagine a government led by Boris can do anything other than make a proper "Bog hole" not merely of Brexit but running the country too
I wonder what the odds are that he will try to dress up May's deal and do a Trump on it, and on top of that convince parliament and then the Brexit punters too?

That latter is the only plausible scenario

 

[OxygenJames]

I'm not making any comment on the value of this HS2 project, just making the point that we have to start somewhere. That will include some that are better, some that are worse, but finding reasons to block every proposal for modernisation isn't going to get us anywhere.

For example, take the M25 that Woosh has just mentioned, a failure before its build was even started. That was because it's origins were to solve London's traffic problems at a time when the rest of the country didn't have a severe traffic problem,

So to solve the London specific problem, Inner London and Outer London motorway boxes were proposed, planned and builds started. Indeed 30 and more years ago I used to commute to work driving on parts of the Inner London motorway and here in Croydon we have a substantial section of the Outer Motorway box that I often drive on.

But then the NIMBY crowd kicked off with a campaign called Homes before Roads and eventually the politicians panicked and cancelled the motorway boxes, leaving sections scattered about ending nowhere, like our on-road painted cyclepaths. But the homes weren't built anyway, so we got neither roads nor homes, a typical British NIMBY victory.

But of course London's ever increasing traffic problem didn't go away, so a just outside London motorway box was proposed so that traffic could circle London closely to transfer from one part to another. However that simply proved impossible, partly due to the scale of the infrastructure on the fringes and partly due to the new NIMBY mob, this time of some elites.

So the "just outside London" motorway called the M25 ended up too far away to do what it was intended to do. For example, I'm in a sticking out bit of London's southern fringe, but I'm still nearly ten miles away from the M25. So to use the M25 to jump from one part of London to another means some 20 to 40 miles of additional driving just to get to and from the motorway, without counting the length travelling around it, which makes it an impractical way to move around London.

The M25 has ended up a 125 miles long bypass, doing nothing to relieve London's traffic problems while making other's traffic problems worse by encouraging vastly more car use by those living anywhere else.

This is what we always do, cancel every start to modernise through nimbyism and end up either with nothing or something completely unsuitable.
.

Really? Don't you think traffic allover the SE (and London) would be significantly worse without the M25. I use that road a lot - it takes a lot of people and goods from A to B. It is a very popular road. Imagine without it. Have you seen what happens when it gets blocked and everybody dives onto the local roads to make the same journeys? Its mad.

 

[oldgroaner]

That latter is the only plausible scenario

A situation that will not sit well with the ERG and the rest of the "Make America Great Again" group, as it will scupper the trade deal with the USA by making it unnecessary.
The leave campaign are about to come up against the unfortunate reality that they don't have the experience, skill or resources to carry out their wishlist of changes, and while it's all very well to promise the moon, delivering it is not an option.
Quite simply it will be a case of "lambs to the slaughter" when it comes to trade deals..
As was noted on here when Liam Fox is "The voice of reason" urging caution
We are doomed , to put it politely.

 

[OxygenJames]

Fair enough but the real villains of the piece got away with it, and how much are you going to contribute to getting rid of Boris when you need to?
By the way the judge made a fair decision
But it looks more as if so called friends abandoned him in his hour of need than anything else, they were all millionaires and walked away leaving him to take the rap.
Note these tweets from 2018

Hardly exonerate the rest of the Leave Campaign, do they, just show them for the treacherous rats they really are.
And isn't it strange that the press don't point out that this act of treachery took place?
Not really, as it would have shown the leave campaign and those running it up for what they are.
Scum that regard a gullible young supporter as acceptable collateral damage.
After all look at the rewards at stake!

How many more times is Carole Cadwalladr going to have to apologise for her botched journalism? (every other week there's one from her in the Observer these days)

No surprises you think she has anything of value to say.

 

[OxygenJames]

You have to wonder what will happen over the next year or so now the loonies have taken over the asylum
Even the Brexit voters can't be that thick that they imagine a government led by Boris can do anything other than make a proper "Bog hole" not merely of Brexit but running the country too
I wonder what the odds are that he will try to dress up May's deal and do a Trump on it, and on top of that convince parliament and then the Brexit punters too?

Here's your nightmare scenario (and one I would love). He gets some sort of a Brexit done - at the very least the backstop is gone - somehow. Then calls an election. And wins with a decent majority.

 

[oldgroaner]

How many more times is Carole Cadwalladr going to have to apologise for her botched journalism? (every other week there's one from her in the Observer these days)

No surprises you think she has anything of value to say.

perhaps you failed to understand the contents of these tweets from 2018?
Read them again and tell me where is the botched journalism you refer to?
You really must pay better attention
She said Darren Grimes was a scapegoat, and he obviously was , abandoned by his so called millionaire friends.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's your nightmare scenario (and one I would love). He gets some sort of a Brexit done - at the very least the backstop is gone - somehow. Then calls an election. And wins with a decent majority.

Why are you anxious to ruin the country?

 

[oyster]

Really? Don't you think traffic allover the SE (and London) would be significantly worse without the M25. I use that road a lot - it takes a lot of people and goods from A to B. It is a very popular road. Imagine without it. Have you seen what happens when it gets blocked and everybody dives onto the local roads to make the same journeys? Its mad.

For some time I found that my journeys often dragged me towards the M25. For example, Hampshire to Nottingham. Although the M25 wasn't quite a straight route, it was at that time better than the alternatives. The lack of good alternatives 20, 30 or 40 miles out ended up making it busier.

 

[oyster]

Here's your nightmare scenario (and one I would love). He gets some sort of a Brexit done - at the very least the backstop is gone - somehow. Then calls an election. And wins with a decent majority.

Even if that means NI preferring to join the republic? Followed by Scotland at least campaigning hard to leave the union.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-arms-sales-invite-saudi-arabia-illegal-dsei-2019-a9012416.html
British government invites Saudi Arabia to world's largest arms fair despite court ruling sales are unlawful

Exclusive: State-owned Saudi arms company to exhibit at DSEI as government appeals court judgment

Shades of the pirates code.
There's a profit to be made, we're gun runners 'aint we?
We are becoming ever worse