Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Alun Cairns: Boris Johnson would set up 'union unit' as PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48819619

How Boris Johnson’s Scotland problem could keep the Tories out of power
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/01/boris-johnson-scotland-tories-union

 

[Danidl]

I thought someone might come up with argument but it doesn't wash in regard to EU's Executive Commission, the Parliament, the European Council, the EU's foreign policy chief and the head of the European Central Bank (ECB). Plus of course the top job.

Its a closed door power grab.

Tell me, have you ever been able to vote for Mr Timmermans? I haven't. He seems a decent enough cove but I have never voted for him nor had the chance to but it seems he is to become the new Emperor.

You may be happy with that. But it's not democracy.

For some reason ,I have not been able to vote for Ms Foster, or B. Johnson..both who are likely to have a greater effect on my peace of mind. .. So I am being affected without representation,is that democracy?. I never had a vote for Ms Merkel either.
Not every public service post in a democratic society is by direct vote. I was appointed to my position,many decades ago by a collection of academics and overseen by a senior civil servant and by a single directly elected local politican. Similarly ,I served on perhaps two hundred similar panels over the years... It is the way of the world....or has been since invented by a certain S. Pepyes , then secretary of the RN.

 

[Fingers]

For some reason ,I have not been able to vote for Ms Foster, or B. Johnson..both who are likely to have a greater effect on my peace of mind. .. So I am being affected without representation,is that democracy?. I never had a vote for Ms Merkel either.
Not every public service post in a democratic society is by direct vote. I was appointed to my position,many decades ago by a collection of academics and overseen by a senior civil servant and by a single directly elected local politican. Similarly ,I served on perhaps two hundred similar panels over the years... It is the way of the world.

Only 200 panels?

The fools. Didn't they realise how clever you are?

Why would you expect to vote on our domestic politics? I get your condition but even you can see the difference between the UK/Germany/France etc and the EU?

 

[flecc]

I thought someone might come up with argument but it doesn't wash in regard to EU's Executive Commission, the Parliament, the European Council, the EU's foreign policy chief and the head of the European Central Bank (ECB). Plus of course the top job.

True, and of course intentional, since it's necessary for the policy of guiding towards a united country of Europe. That could never be achieved by negotiation alone between so many countries, though the steps towards that end is by individual treaties . So each step is democratic and can only be made through the acceptance of the treaties by the democratically elected governments.
.

 

[Danidl]

Only 200 panels?

The fools. Didn't they realise how clever you are?

Why would you expect to vote on our domestic politics? I get your condition but even you can see the difference between the UK/Germany/France etc and the EU?

.. well I had the day job as well..

 

[Fingers]

True, and of course intentional, since it's necessary for the policy of guiding towards a united country of Europe. That could never be achieved by negotiation alone between so many countries, though the steps towards that end is by individual treaties . So each step is democratic and can only be made through the acceptance of the treaties by the democratically elected governments.
.

Until we end up with a situation like how the Pope is elected now.

Perfect!

 

[flecc]

Until we end up with a situation like how the Pope is elected now.

A united one country Europe would be more like the USA, so possibly the president elected in a similar way. The larger the unit, the more inevitable it is that democratic influence becomes more remote.

But that's the cost of necessarily being a big unit in what is increasingly a world of giants.
.

 

[Danidl]

Until we end up with a situation like how the Pope is elected now.

Perfect!

No. The church never pretended to be democratic.

 

[Fingers]

A united one country Europe would be more like the USA, so possibly the president elected in a similar way. The larger the unit, the more inevitable it is that democratic influence becomes more remote.

But that's the cost of necessarily being a big unit in what is increasingly a world of giants.
.

That's what you have been trained to think.

 

[Fingers]

No. The church never pretended to be democratic.

Now you're starting to get it.

 

[Danidl]

Now you're starting to get it.

Huh!. I sussed that one out 55 years ago.

 

[oldgroaner]

View attachment 31101

Then ask us again. since Brexit is no longer seen as a good idea. If this is our decision why can't we reconsider it?
Were we only granted one wish?

Anyone can shout

 

[flecc]

That's what you have been trained to think.

Not so, I use my own mind. I've known the intent since the Treaty of Rome, reinforced for those who bothered to keep informed when we joined the EEC in the 1970s.

I've always agreed with that intent, the need was very clear following WW2.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I thought someone might come up with argument but it doesn't wash in regard to EU's Executive Commission, the Parliament, the European Council, the EU's foreign policy chief and the head of the European Central Bank (ECB). Plus of course the top job.

Its a closed door power grab.

Tell me, have you ever been able to vote for Mr Timmermans? I haven't. He seems a decent enough cove but I have never voted for him nor had the chance to but it seems he is to become the new Emperor.

You may be happy with that. But it's not democracy.

Aren't we lucky to be able to vote for our Prime Minister, and all the other ministers too
Fingers you're not making sense are you? it's just the same here.

 

[oldgroaner]

That's what you have been trained to think.

So that's why you accept the same method here of not electing ministers is it?
Because you've been trained to IGNORE the process of selection?

 

[oldgroaner]

Until we end up with a situation like how the Pope is elected now.

Perfect!

And Boris too remember

 

[oldgroaner]

It’s not democracy. It’s a bun fight. It’s a horse trading market. A good old fashioned crowning of an emperor Roman style.

It’s nothing to do with democracy.

Nearly as bad as choosing our prime minister?
What's the difference?

 

[Woosh]

Then ask us again. since Brexit is no longer seen as a good idea. If this is our decision why can't we reconsider it?
Were we only granted one wish?

Anyone can shout

we can but the conservative government can't.
you have to wait until you can vote them out.
My guess the next government will try to either go for a very soft brexit or another referendum.

 

[oldgroaner]

I take your apology.

I just find it laughable when people invoke the Hitler argument. Reductio ad Hitlerum. Perhaps we should change Godwins Law to Geralds Law as you use it so often?

But you've said sorry so we can move on. Please stop saying it though as it makes you sound silly. Any evidence you have will be taken seriously and I will pass it on to the relevant authorities.

In this instance it will be the Metropolitan police and ultimately Europol. I will also pass it onto contacts I have in the journalism field. I know many are trying to find links to damage Farage and his backers so your information of them being fascists will be gratefully received.

Unless you are lying/don't understand the word/ its nonsense.

Perhaps you have lost the ability to read? look at my post again
You may find it laughable but that says more about your naivety than anything else
Stop acting the fool and look at what is happening before you .
Just what do you imagine motivates the main characters in the leave campaign?
Why the connections with Steve Bannon and America?
Brexit was supposed to be a UK thing, not fed and watered and directed from afar as it was,
You've been had, haven't you?
The Government and agencies know full well what the leave champions are and what they represent and are quite happy to ignore the facts, because it suits their right wing agenda.
So any evidence will not be news to them will it?

Why do you identify yourself with the Tory Party that you pretend to hate, just to get a Brexit that you haven't a hope will be to your benefit?
Do you really think the Conservatives are being honest with you, and you can trust them?

Come on, do explain exactly what these Leave champions are trying to achieve on your behalf.
You haven't got a clue, and that is why we get this nonsense from you.

What is the advantage of Brexit?
Let's here it, don't be shy...
Tell us how leaving the EU will bring peace and prosperity for us all.

 

[Fingers]

Perhaps you have lost the ability to read? look at my post again
You may find it laughable but that says more about your naivety than anything else
Stop acting the fool and look at what is happening before you .
Just what do you imagine motivates the main characters in the leave campaign?
Why the connections with Steve Bannon and America?
Brexit was supposed to be a UK thing, not fed and watered and directed from afar as it was,
You've been had, haven't you?
The Government and agencies know full well what the leave champions are and what they represent and are quite happy to ignore the facts, because it suits their right wing agenda.
So any evidence will not be news to them will it?

Why do you identify yourself with the Tory Party that you pretend to hate, just to get a Brexit that you haven't a hope will be to your benefit?
Do you really think the Conservatives are being honest with you, and you can trust them?

Come on, do explain exactly what these Leave champions are trying to achieve on your behalf.
You haven't got a clue, and that is why we get this nonsense from you.

What is the advantage of Brexit?
Let's here it, don't be shy...
Tell us how leaving the EU will bring peace and prosperity for us all.

I think you are blustering again.

You said it's "A re run of Germany in the 1930's with the fascists inheriting the workers vote.. History repeats itself"

That's quite the statement.

I'm just trying to burrow down to some facts. Are you prepared to furnish us with those facts?

Who are the fascists?

It's a really simple question. What is a re run of Germany in the 1930's?

I have never said anyone on the leave side is my champion. Nor have I said leaving would bring on World War 3. I am in the middle. I think these statements are silly. As are yours.

Rein it in a bit eh?

Please don't conflate a vote leave to a political institution with the greatest genocide in the history of the world.

Would you like to withdraw the statement?