Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

I’m telling you, the NHS is knackered, the way it’s funded and the way we pay for our healthcare must change. The world is now very different since the NHS was invented.

Before 2008, the NHS was about OK-ish. Now it's in a dire need of money.
most of us pay in more than take out, it's to be expected that we want better efficiency but think about it, the answer is not more tax cuts or promises of reform, the answer is everyone who can afford private healthcare should either think about paying privately or move to another country to reduce the pressure on the NHS.

 

[Danidl]

I’m not sure about nurses standing around chatting, that’s not my experience. Fat women clutching clipboards chatting about their children, yes, nurses no.

I visited my 94 year old neighbour in hospital last week. The man is a legend. The retired Technical Services Director from my local council and has a fantastic mind m. He’s had several management books published and recently decided to research the history of American Jazz music and then to write about it.

He was in a bay of 6 patients and I think there were 8 bays. He was in excruciating pain and sat crying when I walked in. He wasn’t complaining, he just apologised for crying and not being able to talk. I asked a woman in a white tunic (I later learned that there are 14 different tunics in the hospital, all meaning something different), and she said she would get THE nurse, not A nurse, THE nurse. There was one nurse in duty. WTF is that all about? Why isn’t the CE of the trust having their arse kicked from one side of the car park to the
other, and then back again before being fired for being a totally useless toss-pot.

I felt really sorry for the nurse, she was constantly apologising and could only offer paracetamol. She said it would take hours, possibly the next day, before a Doctor could get there! In an effing hospital! I had exactly the same experience watching my mother slowly drown in her own mucus, caused by a tumour, in a hospital whilst waiting for THE junior S1 Doctor to come and finish her off with a morphine pump.

On the bay where my neighbour was suffering, two out of the six spoke no English which put a further demand on the Nurse’s time trying to communicate.

This is not the fault of the nurses, they have a shite job to do. This is down to politicians, tosses who have somehow infiltrated the NHS management, and the BMA mafia.

I’m telling you, the NHS is knackered, the way it’s funded and the way we pay for our healthcare must change. The world is now very different since the NHS was invented.

Not quite as bad as that here, but we are catching up quickly.

 

[50Hertz]

Before 2008, the NHS was about OK-ish. Now it's in a dire need of money.
most of us pay in more than take out, it's to be expected that we want better efficiency but think about it, the answer is not more tax cuts or promises of reform, the answer is everyone who can afford private healthcare should either think about paying privately or move to another country to reduce the pressure on the NHS.

It was ok in 2008. It’s not now. There are too many people. How did that happen?

 

[flecc]

I’m telling you, the NHS is knackered, the way it’s funded and the way we pay for our healthcare must change. The world is now very different since the NHS was invented.

While I agree with your last sentence, this may change before long, back towards the world of the 1940s and '50s.

This is not a swipe at Brexit, just an acknowledgment that if it all goes wrong we could slide back to that former state very quickly.

The problem is where we are starting from, a position where we are having to have a continuing program of cuts to reach enduring fiscal balance. Even if nothing else changes that means a lower standard of living across the board, but of course there will be negative change. We've been warned and it's even acknowledged by the Brexiters that things will be tough for a decade or so, so the immediate future isn't promising.

Therefore it's not a good time to get rid of the safety net of the NHS, major changes like that should only be done from a position of strength. Now the best approach is probably fiddling at the edges to patch the NHS as best as possible while we find out what our future will be like.
.

 

[flecc]

There are too many people. How did that happen?

I could tell you, but I'd have to mention the naughty bits.
.

 

[50Hertz]

While I agree with your last sentence, this may change before long, back towards the world of the 1940s and '50s.

This is not a swipe at Brexit, just an acknowledgment that if it all goes wrong we could slide back to that former state very quickly.

The problem is where we are starting from, a position where we are having to have a continuing program of cuts to reach enduring fiscal balance. Even if nothing else changes that means a lower standard of living across the board, but of course there will be negative change. We've been warned and it's even acknowledged by the Brexiters that things will be tough for a decade or so, so the immediate future isn't promising.

Therefore it's not a good time to get rid of the safety net of the NHS, major changes like that should only be done from a position of strength. Now the best approach is probably fiddling at the edges to patch the NHS as best as possible whie we find out what our future will be like.
.

I agree. I didn’t take it as a swipe at Brexit. It is
a fact that as we take a step from the known to the unknown when we exit the EU, the country COULD be worse off. I’m not saying we will be worse off, but it would silly not to acknowledge that possibility.

If the unknown does turn out to be a worse financial situation, then it’s inevitable that the NHS will decline to an even worse state and more rapidly. There simply will not be enough government income to finance quality healthcare, even at today’s known level. I don’t believe that bus promise, the one that Johnson and Farage promoted. I don’t think they believe it now either.

But I suppose if my gut feeling is wrong and Brexit turns out to be a successful roll of the dice, then we are concerned over nothing. All will be fine and the situation will improve.

 

[Woosh]

It was ok in 2008. It’s not now. There are too many people. How did that happen?

old people refuse to die.
we may have to gas all those over 90.

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree. I didn’t take it as a swipe at Brexit. It is
a fact that as we take a step from the known to the unknown when we exit the EU, the country COULD be worse off. I’m not saying we will be worse off, but it wound silly not to acknowledge that possibility.

If the unknown does turn out to be a worse financial situation, then it’s inevitable that the NHS will decline to an even worse state and more rapidly. There simply will not be enough government income to finance quality healthcare, even at today’s known level. I don’t believe that bus promise, the one that Johnson and Farage prompted. I don’t think they believe it now either.

But I suppose if my gut feeling is wrong and Brexit turns out to be a successful roll of the dice, then we are concerned over nothing. All will be fine and the situation will improve.

I'll fence of an area in the back garden for my free Unicorn

 

[oldgroaner]

old people refuse to die.
we may have to gas all those over 90.

That's a temporary relief!

 

[Woosh]

seriously, in the next few years, NHS patients may have to be mean tested for expensive treatments, ie you pay 20% of the cost of your hospitalisation or expensive medicine if you have x amount of savings.
That will raise additional resources and encourage health insurance and private health care providers.

 

[oyster]

seriously, in the next few years, NHS patients may have to be mean tested for expensive treatments, ie you pay 20% of the cost of your hospitalisation or expensive medicine if you have x amount of savings.
That will raise additional resources and encourage health insurance and private health care providers.

I know of many people who purchase one of their medicines from abroad. Several reasons, not least the high price the NHS pays has rendered one of them virtually unprescribable. Whereas importing is a fairly reasonable price.

Many are reasonably happy to do so rather than be totally refused. (They still cannot see why but understand reality.)

But they still have to somehow get a prescription. Which is difficult.

If we are going to be means tested, then the NHS has to uphold its side of the bargain and ensure they are not paying massively over the odds. The idea that we could be means tested for a medicine that costs peanuts in some countries (and I do mean just over a euro for 28 tablets in, for example, Greece) is deeply iniquitous. It would cost far more to process a form than supply the medicine.

The whole basis of the prescription system is to protect us from the dangers of inappropriate medicines or dosing. Not to stop us getting the medicines we need. If it is in effect pure exploitation, we might be better off without it.

 

[flecc]

we may have to gas all those over 90.

Not enough, there's only half a million of them in England and Wales. It's the 6 millions of 70 to 90 where the bulk troubling the NHS are.

Just make the pension from 70 on conditional on completing a half marathon. Wouldn't need to gas anyone then.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

seriously, in the next few years, NHS patients may have to be mean tested for expensive treatments, ie you pay 20% of the cost of your hospitalisation or expensive medicine if you have x amount of savings.
That will raise additional resources and encourage health insurance and private health care providers.

That isn't going to work, is it? People who can afford Private medical treatment are not going to wait in the queue with the plebs and the consultants . Never have and never will.
And how does someone with Prostate cancer and unable to work, perhaps on a zero hours contract, so no income, going to pay 20%?

These costs are American, but give some idea
"For example, Saint Elizabeth Regional Medical Center in Nebraska, charges about $485 for a basic radiation therapy dose plan, $730-$1,000 for a medical physics consult, $600-$1,300 for radiation treatment aids such as special shields or casts, $490 for X-ray guidance, which uses X-rays to help the doctor target radiation delivery to the correct area, and $1,240 for CT scan guidance, which uses CT scan imaging to target radiation delivery.

Live expectancy for the plebs will fall back to 1940's levels courtesy of Brexit
After all many poor folk are either strapped for cash or relying on credit.
And before some smart ass says "well they can do without Booze, smokes and I phones etc.," that
reduces sales of Consumer Goods ,will hit the economy as well, and that means lower growth figures.
Get rid of Trident and put the money into healthcare .

 

[flecc]

seriously, in the next few years, NHS patients may have to be mean tested for expensive treatments, ie you pay 20% of the cost of your hospitalisation or expensive medicine if you have x amount of savings.
That will raise additional resources and encourage health insurance and private health care providers.

We already have a contributary health service in dentistry and opthalmology where NHS patients pay, but not the whole cost.

Perhaps one way is that everyone not on pension credit pays a small amount towards whatever NHS treatment they have.

The BBC have chosen pension credit as the defining line for free TV licences from next year, so we have a precedent.
.

 

[Zlatan]

seriously, in the next few years, NHS patients may have to be mean tested for expensive treatments, ie you pay 20% of the cost of your hospitalisation or expensive medicine if you have x amount of savings.
That will raise additional resources and encourage health insurance and private health care providers.

I dont see any issue with that. If we are capable of paying surely there is a moral case to do so. Could that work alongside some folk having totally free, others paying a decent contribution and others financing through insurance.
Around 5 years ago I was offered a replacement knee on NHS, felt it would curtail a few of the sports I try and take part in. Looked into stem cell, unavailable on NHS so went private. Self funded. Cost a fortune but worth it. Yes, I, ll need a new joint eventually but stem cell treatment has bought me (so far) another 3 years abusing my knees, hopefully another 5??? We, ll see.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not enough, there's only half a million of them in England and Wales. It's the 6 millions of 70 to 90 where the bulk troubling the NHS are.

Just make the pension from 70 on conditional on completing a half marathon. Wouldn't need to gas anyone then.
.

It's all the fault of them Germans,you know the people who did Hull a big favour with town planning.

Personally I blame Rommel, as my father once said to me in jest (I think)

If Rommel's blokes had been half as good as we were led to believe you wouldn't be here

 

[Danidl]

Not enough, there's only half a million of them in England and Wales. It's the 6 millions of 70 to 90 where the bulk troubling the NHS are.

Just make the pension from 70 on conditional on completing a half marathon. Wouldn't need to gas anyone then.
.

. Of course those having ebikes are perfectly entitled to use them on the half marathon....

 

[oldgroaner]

We already have a contributary health service in dentistry and opthalmology where NHS patients pay, but not the whole cost.

Perhaps one way is that everyone not on pension credit pays a small amount towards whatever NHS treatment they have.

The BBC have chosen pension credit as the defining line for free TV licences from next year, so we have a precedent.
.

With exquisite timing ....I was 75 in April

 

[oldgroaner]

Not enough, there's only half a million of them in England and Wales. It's the 6 millions of 70 to 90 where the bulk troubling the NHS are.

Just make the pension from 70 on conditional on completing a half marathon. Wouldn't need to gas anyone then.
.

I wouldn't have passed that test at 21! (talk about living on borrowed time!)

 

[wheeler]

Just make the pension from 70 on conditional on completing a half marathon. Wouldn't need to gas anyone then.
.

Only half a Marathon, that'll never work, I know a few over 70s that can eat 2 or 3 at a time.












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