Brexit, for once some facts.

[50Hertz]

That is probably the biggest ball shitt post Ive ever read on here.

Wow, that’s some going.

At least own your nonsense like Gerald does. You can’t say I hate something then say the opposite thing the next sentence.

It makes you look foolish and gives the game away.

You are better than that.

I think you can hate something and then say the opposite. For example, I hate the prospect of my 5 yearly precautionary colonoscopy, but would advise anyone to have it done if they can. I hate the prospect of a pay as you go NHS, but for the good of your health, would advise you to take it up if you can.

The NHS is busted, probably beyond repair, and particularly in care for the elderly. You don’t want to get old and rely on the NHS.

 

[Woosh]

I think you can hate something and then say the opposite. For example, I hate the prospect of my 5 yearly precautionary colonoscopy, but would advise anyone to have it done if they can. I hate the prospect of a pay as you go NHS, but for the good of your health, would advise you to take it up if you can.

The NHS is busted, probably beyond repair, and particularly in care for the elderly. You don’t want to get old and rely on the NHS.

you can go private anytime you want.
why do you want to take away the safety net for those who cannot afford to pay privately?

 

[Fingers]

I think you can hate something and then say the opposite. For example, I hate the prospect of my 5 yearly precautionary colonoscopy, but would advise anyone to have it done if they can. I hate the prospect of a pay as you go NHS, but for the good of your health, would advise you to take it up if you can.

The NHS is busted, probably beyond repair, and particularly in care for the elderly. You don’t want to get old and rely on the NHS.

After ten years of Tory rule the NHS is always going to struggle. It’s not a new thing. We’ve seen this before.

When you have a health secretary that wrote the book. Actually wrote a book on privatising the NHS then what do you expect?

Funding needs to be increased and spent in the right way. The budget has been slashed in real terms, we have a shortage of nurses never seen in the history of the NHS. A health secretary that went to war with junior doctors. Treated them worse than his previous regime did to miners. It’s really not surprising to see the NHS in the ropes.

It’s an ideology thing. People like you hate the idea of someone getting something for free so it should be banned.

You are scum basically. Tory scum.

I’m sure you’re a nice guy and be good to have a beer with but basically you hate poor people and see them all as scroungers.

I don’t.

 

[50Hertz]

After ten years of Tory rule the NHS is always going to struggle. It’s not a new thing. We’ve seen this before.

When you have a health secretary that wrote the book. Actually wrote a book on privatising the NHS then what do you expect?

Funding needs to be increased and spent in the right way. The budget has been slashed in real terms, we have a shortage of nurses never seen in the history of the NHS. A health secretary that went to war with junior doctors. Treated them worse than his previous regime did to miners. It’s really not surprising to see the NHS in the ropes.

It’s an ideology thing. People like you hate the idea of someone getting something for free so it should be banned.

You are scum basically. Tory scum.

I’m sure you’re a nice guy and be good to have a beer with but basically you hate poor people and see them all as scroungers.

I don’t.

I agree with bits of what you say, but disagree with a lot more.

I hope that I don’t hate poor people, that would be terrible. Poor people pay for their healthcare too, and as a percentage of their income, they may well be paying more than I do. They, me, you aren’t getting value for money. The NHS is squandering resources and money due to a spectrum of reasons, reasons that wouldn’t be tolerated in a private business environment.

If you gave the NHS £10 billion, they’d waste £9 billion. That can’t continue. It needs a radical overhaul with more bought in private services.

 

[Fingers]

I agree with bits of what you say, but disagree with a lot more.

I hope that I don’t hate poor people, that would be terrible. Poor people pay for their healthcare too, and as a percentage of their income, they may well be paying more than I do. They, me, you aren’t getting value for money. The NHS is squandering resources and money due to a spectrum of reasons, reasons that wouldn’t be tolerated in a private business environment.

If you gave the NHS £10 billion, they’d waste £9 billion. That can’t continue. It needs a radical overhaul with more bought in private services.

But it’s never going to happen. It’s had ‘radical’ reforms in the past. They don’t work.

As a model, well let’s say giant, massive country sized oil tanker type model, it need tweaking, nudging. Generally speaking it works when it’s not being ideologically opposed.

It is expensive. It isn’t perfect but it works. Let’s just keep it going and fixing the parts that are broken.

I have never had a problem with it in my lifetime. My wife is the same. Some of my family have had issues but that’s not the norm.

It doesn’t need a massive overhaul just some updates and proper funding.

 

[oldgroaner]

The NHS is a shambles and getting worse. I’m hate the idea of private healthcare, but it’s getting to the point where the NHS should be abandoned and you pay for the care you need.

Allowing the elderly, disadvantaged , disabled and poor to die off naturally?

I was born at a time like that, is was a disgrace to the Human Race that people died for lack of funds, because the better off are quite simply selfish greedy and blinkered, and very low grade human beings, but that describes a large section of the comfortably well off doesn't it?

They see themselves virtuous because they have acquired money, and they think the only way to value a human life is to look at their financial assets, which actually proves that they are in fact worse than the people they despise.

Any country that sees monetary wealth as a way of limiting health care fails to meet the minimum standard where it can call itself Civilised, for after all the basic tenet of civilisation is to work for the benefit of all, protecting the strong from the weak

No society has actually even begun to reach that stage, but with the introduction of NHS we took a very big step forward beyond less advanced countries.

The NHS is of far more value that Weapons of mass destruction like Trident, you simply have to choose the methods and people involved in running it as having to succeed or face dire consequences for failure.

 

[oldgroaner]

Interesting take on democracy

The unbelievable hypocrisy of the Remoaner elite

In order to prevent No Deal ‘chaos’, establishment Remainers are now threatening to bring about... chaos.

www.spiked-online.com

Rather like the threat to prorogue parliament to prevent that happening, so what exactly is the point ?

 

[oldgroaner]

I think you can hate something and then say the opposite. For example, I hate the prospect of my 5 yearly precautionary colonoscopy, but would advise anyone to have it done if they can. I hate the prospect of a pay as you go NHS, but for the good of your health, would advise you to take it up if you can.

The NHS is busted, probably beyond repair, and particularly in care for the elderly. You don’t want to get old and rely on the NHS.

Frankly no matter who you rely on can help my wife with Mixed Dementia , but I know which one is more likely to fight to help others evade our collective fate in the future.

And it isn't a "run for Profit" rip off outfit that battens like a parasite on the NHS.

 

[Woosh]

They see themselves virtuous because they have acquired money, and they think the only way to value a human life is to look at their financial assets, which actually proves that they are in fact worse than the people they despise.

I would have thought that they think of themselves virtuous because they pay in more than they take out.
That will always be the case for the 2 out of 3 majority.
That's our current situation and that keep the tories in power.
If you want socialism to succeed, you have either to have governments owning means of production thus making 3 out of 3 individuals paying in less than they take out or educate people so that 3 out of 3 are happy to pay in more than they take out.

 

[Danidl]

Interesting take on democracy

The unbelievable hypocrisy of the Remoaner elite

In order to prevent No Deal ‘chaos’, establishment Remainers are now threatening to bring about... chaos.

www.spiked-online.com

I rarely ,if ever , use the term, but I rank that website person as a prize gobshite... There have been equal helping of bile from him before.

 

[Danidl]

I agree with bits of what you say, but disagree with a lot more.

I hope that I don’t hate poor people, that would be terrible. Poor people pay for their healthcare too, and as a percentage of their income, they may well be paying more than I do. They, me, you aren’t getting value for money. The NHS is squandering resources and money due to a spectrum of reasons, reasons that wouldn’t be tolerated in a private business environment.

If you gave the NHS £10 billion, they’d waste £9 billion. That can’t continue. It needs a radical overhaul with more bought in private services.

No... they need better, more committed managers. We also have private clinics in Ireland, and they are fine for a lot of the assembly line operations .. tidying up a knee, hip replacements, but the real tricky , expensive, long duration stuff, which is not profitable, they avoid. .. Who takes these up? in my case the HSE..NHS equivalent
There are vast numbers of activities which could be streamlined within the mainstream health services. .. Even the provision of crutches .These are freely provided,but there is no mechanism for returning them after the leg is healed.

 

[Zlatan]

Allowing the elderly, disadvantaged , disabled and poor to die off naturally?

I was born at a time like that, is was a disgrace to the Human Race that people died for lack of funds, because the better off are quite simply selfish greedy and blinkered, and very low grade human beings, but that describes a large section of the comfortably well off doesn't it?

They see themselves virtuous because they have acquired money, and they think the only way to value a human life is to look at their financial assets, which actually proves that they are in fact worse than the people they despise.

Any country that sees monetary wealth as a way of limiting health care fails to meet the minimum standard where it can call itself Civilised, for after all the basic tenet of civilisation is to work for the benefit of all, protecting the strong from the weak

No society has actually even begun to reach that stage, but with the introduction of NHS we took a very big step forward beyond less advanced countries.

The NHS is of far more value that Weapons of mass destruction like Trident, you simply have to choose the methods and people involved in running it as having to succeed or face dire consequences for failure.

I dont think anyone has said that OG. NHS is incredible but does waste resources, time and money. I, m in middle of heart proceedures for AF and care, concern and skil I, ve had devoted really are superb....but the number of staff involved, amount of time wasted with nurses stood at stations discussing holidays for literally hours at a time would not or actually could not be tolerated in private sector. Yes, its marvelous, staff are superb but again reninds me of Rover engineers. Why use 2 nurses (for admin support) when 5 can get involved.
Also, prior to every proceefure I receive a small tome about risks, whats happening as if its written for 5 year olds. Read last one and thought "somebody is getting paid to write this rubbish". Really 90% of it is totally unneeded, but all repeated for every single patient. Not sure privatation is answer but something needs to change.

 

[Woosh]

I dont think anyone has said that OG. NHS is incredible but does waste resources, time and money. I, m in middle of heart proceedures for AF and care, concern and skil I, ve had devoted really are superb....but the number of staff involved, amount of time wasted with nurses stood at stations discussing holidays for literally hours at a time would not or actually could not be tolerated in private sector. Yes, its marvelous, staff are superb but again reninds me of Rover engineers. Why use 2 nurses (for admin support) when 5 can get involved.
Also, prior to every proceefure I receive a small tome about risks, whats happening as if its written for 5 year olds. Read last one and thought "somebody is getting paid to write this rubbish". Really 90% of it is totally unneeded, but all repeated for every single patient. Not sure privatation is answer but something needs to change.

there must be a large amount of standardized practice in any large organisation. Just think of the amount of printed manuals I send out with every bike and kit although people are supposed to have read them online before ordering or the amount of cartons and soft packaging material (10kgs-12kgs) that has to be disposed of before you can ride my new bike. I am not the only one doing this.
these problems as you call them are micro issues, not going to be fixed by politicians' reforms.

 

[flecc]

The NHS is busted, probably beyond repair, and particularly in care for the elderly. You don’t want to get old and rely on the NHS.

It’s an ideology thing. People like you hate the idea of someone getting something for free so it should be banned.

We need both, NHS and Private Health Care.

When William Beveridge wrote the report that the Attlee government adopted for their welfare and health care reforms, he specified it as a safety net for those needing one, not an all encompassing replacement for everyone.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Agreed but dont forget nearly every letter sent out is for a specifi

there must be a large amount of standardized practice in any large organisation. Just think of the amount of printed manuals I send out with every bike and kit although people are supposed to have read them online before ordering or the amount of cartons and soft packaging material (10kgs-12kgs) that has to be disposed of before you can ride my new bike. I am not the only one doing this.
these problems as you call them are micro issues, not going to be fixed by politicians' reforms.

Agreed but dont forget every letter from NHS is about a specific patient with differeing background and problems. Yes, a few will be generic but most will have to be written with a patient in mind( mine mentioned unrelated issues going back 20 years)
I also doubt your business could stand 5 employees discussing holidays in detail for 2 hours,whilst sat actually doing nothing else. Yes, perhaps extra staff needed for "rush hour" but no way on earth is there any other industry where this would be tolerated. After patient welfare, where NHS staff take holidays is major topic. Seems a common theme. I would ever have been situation to do similar during my time in education. Could not be done in other areas I, ve found myself working.
But the NHS is fantastic and perhaps there is no alternative to this apparent waste.???

 

[Zlatan]

Agreed but dont forget nearly every letter sent out is for a specifi

there must be a large amount of standardized practice in any large organisation. Just think of the amount of printed manuals I send out with every bike and kit although people are supposed to have read them online before ordering or the amount of cartons and soft packaging material (10kgs-12kgs) that has to be disposed of before you can ride my new bike. I am not the only one doing this.
these problems as you call them are micro issues, not going to be fixed by politicians' reforms.

Agreed but dont forget every letter from NHS is about a specific patient with differeing background and problems. Yes, a few will be generic but most will have to be written with a patient in mind( mine mentioned unrelated issues going back 20 years)
I also doubt your business could stand 5 employees discussing holidays in detail for 2 hours,whilst sat actually doing nothing else. Yes, perhaps extra staff needed for "rush hour" but no way on earth is there any other industry where this would be tolerated. After patient welfare, where NHS staff take holidays is major topic. Seems a common theme. I would never have been situation to do similar during my time in education. Could not be done in other areas I, ve found myself working.
But the NHS is fantastic and perhaps there is no alternative to this apparent waste.

 

[Woosh]

I also doubt your business could stand 5 employees discussing holidays in detail for 2 hours,whilst sat actually doing nothing else

not 5 but usually 2, chatting with the radio on. I ignore these things because you have to have about 20%-25% headroom. I join in sometime, offering to make tea. Common practice for small companies, you take the smooth with the rough.
In the summer we are busy but not in the winter. Everyone needs a stable wage packet, you have to go with it.

 

[Zlatan]

not 5 but usually 2, chatting with the radio on. I ignore these things because you have to have about 20%-25% headroom. I join in sometime, offering to make tea. Common practice for small companies, you take the smooth with the rough.
In the summer we are busy but not in the winter. Everyone needs a stable wage packet, you have to go with it.

There, s a bit more than that going on in NHS Woosh. Have a look around next time you are there.

 

[Woosh]

But the NHS is fantastic and perhaps there is no alternative to this apparent waste.???

no, if you look for a low cost solution to caring for 66 millions of people, with about 11 millions over 60s.
the US spends 17.2% of its GDP on healthcare. If we spend anything like that, our NHS would be much better than it is at the moment. We spend about 9%-10% on NHS and care for the elderly.

 

[50Hertz]

I’m not sure about nurses standing around chatting, that’s not my experience. Fat women clutching clipboards chatting about their children, yes, nurses no.

I visited my 94 year old neighbour in hospital last week. The man is a legend. The retired Technical Services Director from my local council and has a fantastic mind m. He’s had several management books published and recently decided to research the history of American Jazz music and then to write about it.

He was in a bay of 6 patients and I think there were 8 bays. He was in excruciating pain and sat crying when I walked in. He wasn’t complaining, he just apologised for crying and not being able to talk. I asked a woman in a white tunic (I later learned that there are 14 different tunics in the hospital, all meaning something different), and she said she would get THE nurse, not A nurse, THE nurse. There was one nurse in duty. WTF is that all about? Why isn’t the CE of the trust having their arse kicked from one side of the car park to the
other, and then back again before being fired for being a totally useless toss-pot.

I felt really sorry for the nurse, she was constantly apologising and could only offer paracetamol. She said it would take hours, possibly the next day, before a Doctor could get there! In an effing hospital! I had exactly the same experience watching my mother slowly drown in her own mucus, caused by a tumour, in a hospital whilst waiting for THE junior S1 Doctor to come and finish her off with a morphine pump.

On the bay where my neighbour was suffering, two out of the six spoke no English which put a further demand on the Nurse’s time trying to communicate.

This is not the fault of the nurses, they have a shite job to do. This is down to politicians, tosses who have somehow infiltrated the NHS management, and the BMA mafia.

I’m telling you, the NHS is knackered, the way it’s funded and the way we pay for our healthcare must change. The world is now very different since the NHS was invented.