Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

The poor Greeks have a climate that allows them to be self sufficient in vegetables all year round so I would say your poor are going to be worse off than the Greeks when the fecal matter hits the fan...

For many in the UK, that point arrived a long time ago but there are various definitions of poverty. Your point is well made though and reflects a society based on greed and selfishness.

Today, materialism is worshipped in the way that God was three or four generations ago and that has served to magnify the gulf between the 'haves and the have-nots' in UK society. Sadly, materialism is not something unique to the UK so two-tier societies have become more apparent in many countries and one needs to look long and hard to find any society where the rich are ruled by the poor.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

My factual posts were made merely to correct the assumed facts, the fictional portions of this Brompton sub string I have no interest in.

Which fictional parts would those be?
The inconvenient parts that didn't suit perhaps?
That would be of course the Brexit Filter in operation.
It's all good news folks, Britain is Booming!

 

[oldgroaner]

For many in the UK, that point arrived a long time ago but there are various definitions of poverty. Your point is well made though and reflects a society based on greed and selfishness.

Today, materialism is worshipped in the way that God was three or four generations ago and that has served to magnify the gulf between the 'haves and the have-nots' in UK society. Sadly, materialism is not something unique to the UK so two-tier societies have become more apparent in many countries and one needs to look long and hard to find any society where the rich are ruled by the poor.

Tom

And confine that scrutiny to the insect world to have a chance?

 

[Kudoscycles]

There is an interesting article on share.com titled 'why did the market punish Brexit....he discusses open or closed Brexit as opposed to hard or soft Brexit. He has decided that closed Brexit would be a disaster for the UK....Theresa May should read this article,it offers some middle ground to remainers and leavers.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

the market reflects short term politics, until the next general election where the support for UKIP is a good indication of volatility.
Parliament needs to work out the best long term strategy. That's how to get a good FTA with the EU or reverse brexit. It may take 5 years. In the mean time, the Pound acts as the shock absorber and will remain weak.

 

[derf]

the market reflects short term politics, until the next general election where the support for UKIP is a good indication of volatility.
Parliament needs to work out the best long term strategy. That's how to get a good FTA with the EU or reverse brexit. It may take 5 years. In the mean time, the Pound acts as the shock absorber and will remain weak.

we represent a whole spectrum of views here, not only on brexit, also more generally. strictly FWIW I don't share the sentiment that there will be a soft brexit. I think as the pound weakens progressively long term
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/5618-gbp-to-eur-and-usd-forecasts-credit-Suisse
and financial services relocate elsewhere
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-banks-planning-to-leave-uk-early-next-year-anthony-browne-british-bankers-association-a7376141.html
politics in the UK will swing more to the right
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jul/07/the-far-right-are-coming-brexit-has-helped-them-along-video
I'm not in any fundamental sense anti-English, I migrated to England because I associated a culture that also created Shakespeare, donne, poe with liberalism and democracy. but I'm increasingly relieved to have gotten out. it's becoming a racist country I don't recognise at all.

 

[oldgroaner]

we represent a whole spectrum of views here, not only on brexit, also more generally. strictly FWIW I don't share the sentiment that there will be a soft brexit. I think as the pound weakens progressively long term
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/5618-gbp-to-eur-and-usd-forecasts-credit-Suisse
and financial services relocate elsewhere
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-banks-planning-to-leave-uk-early-next-year-anthony-browne-british-bankers-association-a7376141.html
politics in the UK will swing more to the right
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jul/07/the-far-right-are-coming-brexit-has-helped-them-along-video
I'm not in any fundamental sense anti-English, I migrated to England because I associated a culture that also created Shakespeare, donne, poe with liberalism and democracy. but I'm increasingly relieved to have gotten out. it's becoming a racist country I don't recognise at all.

Sorry, but I'm not impressed with being tarred with the same brush as the 48% who voted for Brexit, and don't have the option this late in life of simply sloping off, feeling disappointed that a Utopian dream didn't work out, sorry for myself and labelling an entire nation as racist.
It would be so nice to have that option, but many of us don't, and quite obviously we are on our own, make no mistake, whatever happens we will get through this reverse.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is an interesting article on share.com titled 'why did the market punish Brexit....he discusses open or closed Brexit as opposed to hard or soft Brexit. He has decided that closed Brexit would be a disaster for the UK....Theresa May should read this article,it offers some middle ground to remainers and leavers.
KudosDave

The only "good" Brexit is to drop the whole bloody stupid idea.

 

[derf]

Sorry, but I'm not impressed with being tarred with the same brush as the 48% who voted for Brexit, and don't have the option this late in life of simply sloping off, feeling disappointed that a Utopian dream didn't work out, sorry for myself and labelling an entire nation as racist.
It would be so nice to have that option, but many of us don't, and quite obviously we are on our own, make no mistake, whatever happens we will get through this reverse.

you make too many assumptions. the dream is going OK (not utopian, but there are places left on planet earth where Farage or Trump don't represent an evolutionary ideal, Europe comes to mind). "sloping off"? Nope, some of my ancestors killed racists back in Africa. I have my own ways of fighting the Le Penn's and Farages influence in my own tiny way. you're not being tarred with a brush. But life is phenomenological. It's about experience, what happens. there is a disturbing phenomenon of increased intolerance, racism in England. I visit it, often (I'm typing this email form Buckinghamshire). I'm visibly form an ethic minority. I may be wrong, but I think one experiences it more directly when that is the case. offending any who are not part of that isn't my intention, but I'm not about to pretend the phenomenon isn't real, actually happening because i don't want to offend you.

 

[derf]

Sorry, but I'm not impressed with being tarred with the same brush as the 48% who voted for Brexit, and don't have the option this late in life of simply sloping off, feeling disappointed that a Utopian dream didn't work out, sorry for myself and labelling an entire nation as racist.
It would be so nice to have that option, but many of us don't, and quite obviously we are on our own, make no mistake, whatever happens we will get through this reverse.

this a bit of a tangent. I'm not advocating sloping off as a basic paradigm to live by. IMHO one needs two things - a sense of community and something to do to feel meaningfully alive and part of it - to be happy. if sloping off - so to speak - robs one of either of these, it's a mistake. but of staying where one is equally robs one of this 9as it would for me to be say in the uk) sloping off may make sense, if you get my drift.
that long preamble is part of working my way up to saying sloping off may be more feasible than one might imagine. money certainly shouldn't stop one from living the life one chooses. an eccentric rather bizarre idol of mine Roger Taylor
http://www.thesimplesailor.com/
comes to mind. If one could find something meaningful to do (say work in a refugee camp in Greece doing whatever one is specialised in), one could easily live on a boat, 10k euro buys a whole range of entirely acceptable live a boards. one would become part of a community doing that, and be somewhere sunnier, on an ocean. sloping off is always possible in that sense.

 

[oldtom]

The only "good" Brexit is to drop the whole bloody stupid idea.

The sooner this nonsense is behind us, the better!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

this a bit of a tangent. I'm not advocating sloping off as a basic paradigm to live by. IMHO one needs two things - a sense of community and something to do to feel meaningfully alive and part of it - to be happy. if sloping off - so to speak - robs one of either of these, it's a mistake. but of staying where one is equally robs one of this 9as it would for me to be say in the uk) sloping off may make sense, if you get my drift.
that long preamble is part of working my way up to saying sloping off may be more feasible than one might imagine. money certainly shouldn't stop one from living the life one chooses. an eccentric rather bizarre idol of mine Roger Taylor
http://www.thesimplesailor.com/
comes to mind. If one could find something meaningful to do (say work in a refugee camp in Greece doing whatever one is specialised in), one could easily live on a boat, 10k euro buys a whole range of entirely acceptable live a boards. one would become part of a community doing that, and be somewhere sunnier, on an ocean. sloping off is always possible in that sense.

My point is that racism exists everywhere, and you simply cannot move and escape it, and it is not inherently "British" more than any other nation.
My choice is to face the music, here, now.
What would I achieve leaving the land where my children and Grandchildren are?
I spend two thirds of my life living in a caravan during the summer so can emote with the "Sloping off " idea, but I'm certainly not going to be driven out of this beautiful country because a large proportion of them have self destructive urges, as this is nothing new and a universal human condition.
I merely wanted to remind you not to be so liberal with generalising the nation as racist, we were far worse in the past than we are now for goodness sake!

 

[oldgroaner]

The sooner this nonsense is behind us, the better!

Tom

And the pond life racist Right wing press that have encouraged and stirred up the less well mentally endowed among us firmly pressed back down into the mud where they belong.
Unless they are discouraged this will only get worse.

 

[oldtom]

I'm not in any fundamental sense anti-English, I migrated to England because I associated a culture that also created Shakespeare, donne, poe with liberalism and democracy. but I'm increasingly relieved to have gotten out. it's becoming a racist country I don't recognise at all.

Many things have changed in British society and in most cases, not for the better.

Intolerance of other people, neighbours and strangers, has risen immensely and racial intolerance has become widespread, no longer restricted simply to colour prejudice.

Good manners are rarely in evidence today and table etiquette seems to have disappeared completely - just look around any restaurant serving plated food and watch how knives and forks are used, for example, if indeed they are used at all!

Use of mobile phones at dinner tables seems to have become an acceptable norm today and although the wearing of hats has become fashionable again, gentlemen seem unaware they should remove hats when eating at a table, even if it's only a baseball cap.

Road manners have gone the way of other forms of politeness and the whole spectre of human inter-relationships seems to have degenerated. I find it ironic that whenever something goes wrong today or a genuine accident occurs, people are all too ready to apportion blame and in many cases seek financial compensation at law. The irony is that the media and most people nowadays refer to serious motoring crashes, collisions and various other incidents as accidents when in 90% of cases, they are not accidental at all - they are caused by downright dangerous behaviour, wanton carelessness, and sometimes criminal intent. Somehow, we have become conditioned to life sentences being mandatory for murder by firearms, bladed implements, poisons and so on but using a vehicle as a weapon is different!

Still, the message about using hand-held phones while driving hasn't got through to the thickos and Jack-the-lads who don't give a toss about anybody else. I don't know how we can redeem the situation which has steadily worsened through subsequent generations but it doesn't bode well for the future.

Tom

 

[trex]

brexit may be stopped at the next GE.
Recent polls suggest a 'stop brexit' party, a reverse UKIP, may get about 26% of the votes, beating both Labour and UKIP, if the elections are held now.
Factor in two years of 4% inflation rates, such eventuality is very possible.
The only way to keep brexit is to have acceptable transitional arrangements.
I bet last week Hartlepool's QT audience will blame the BBC for that.

 

[flecc]

I bet last week Hartlepool's QT audience will blame the BBC for that.

They shouldn't blame the British Broadcasting Corporation, more the Blasted Brexit Calamity.
.

 

[oldtom]

I'm not quite sure what to make of the reporting by the 'Observer' about the distinct possibility of both our major banks and not so major ones exiting the UK should 'Brexit' occur.

It's not exactly new news, having been mentioned quite some time ago and since repeated at intervals by various organs. If this disaster should actually come to pass, I shudder to think what we will do in Britain to earn our crust - perhaps we might need to start inventing things again, things that 21st century people actually want or need, then mass-producing them to hopefully sell in other countries.

If only!

As it seems we have lost the ability to design and build our own nuclear power stations, lost the ability to make steel, cars, ships and aeroplanes, what exactly will we produce that can be sold abroad? Our major industries of nail bars, armament manufacture, tattoo parlours and business consultancies are unlikely to be big hits overseas so I'd love to see the plan/template or road map at UKIP head office to see how we get to their promised utopia.

122 days after the referendum and I'm no wiser.......it's like being on some kind of mystery tour but nobody's driving the bus!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37743700

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

I'm not quite sure what to make of the reporting by the 'Observer' about the distinct possibility of both our major banks and not so major ones exiting the UK should 'Brexit' occur.

It's not exactly new news, having been mentioned quite some time ago and since repeated at intervals by various organs. If this disaster should actually come to pass, I shudder to think what we will do in Britain to earn our crust - perhaps we might need to start inventing things again, things that 21st century people actually want or need, then mass-producing them to hopefully sell in other countries.

If only!

As it seems we have lost the ability to design and build our own nuclear power stations, lost the ability to make steel, cars, ships and aeroplanes, what exactly will we produce that can be sold abroad? Our major industries of nail bars, armament manufacture, tattoo parlours and business consultancies are unlikely to be big hits overseas so I'd love to see the plan/template or road map at UKIP head office to see how we get to their promised utopia.

122 days after the referendum and I'm no wiser.......it's like being on some kind of mystery tour but nobody's driving the bus!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37743700

Tom

It's time that attention was paid to the (for the first and only time ) wise words of Farage
"Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”
This is sensible and we should demand no less ourselves.
Show us Two thirds to one third support for Brexit and that will end the argument.
But wait patiently for the Article 50 negotiations before asking the nation again.

 

[lozw]

Regardless of whether it is good or bad for the country, I imagine the news that "bankers are leaving the country" will be greeted by half the people as "result!"

 

[oldgroaner]

Regardless of whether it is good or bad for the country, I imagine the news that "bankers are leaving the country" will be greeted by half the people as "result!"

This is true!

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