Brexit, for once some facts.

50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
2,199
2,403
'Must not lie'? Ha! You honestly think you can survive in politics without the odd lie here and there?

Bless you but it's time to grow up.

Do you think we would have won the war if Churchill and the government had told the truth about the situation we were in? No. No chance. Morale is key.

Remember - most if not all people do not vote based on rational facts-based decisions - they vote on feelings.
If you are honest and straight with people, they will follow you and you can lead them. There is only a requirement to fall back to a position of lying when you are short on ideas and talent. That’s why lying is becoming the norm in politics.

If you are content with being lied to, that’s your decision. I’m not, I think I, and millions of other people, are worthy of better leadership than that.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
You forgot to add that youre at the worst brothel in town because you told your wife and family (eu) to **** off and became infatuated with an obese flatulent tart with a mop of white hair and a penchant for pathological lying whom you slavishly followed (to the worst brothel in town). Youre challenge is not to find the least infectious sex worker in the cheapest brothel in town: it is to work out what madness made you end up in it.
You must be psychic!!??? Or you, ve been to brothels in Hull.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
If you are honest and straight with people, they will follow you and you can lead them. There is only a requirement to fall back to a position of lying when you are short on ideas and talent. That’s why lying is becoming the norm in politics.

If you are content with being lied to, that’s your decision. I’m not, I think I, and millions of other people, are worthy of better leadership than that.
We can all have ideals but you still havent offered a viable, or any for that matter, actual choices.
Which party? Which leader? Who in government? I, m afraid as bad as May was she was and still is best of them all.
Unless you are completely mad and want Corbyn, which I doubt.
Seems the concept my grandkids adopt when they come for tea is rife and spreading. A great big list of what they dont want, no idea what they do in end they have to have what they have ben given.
They can leave the brocolli, we have to put up with fools that fall into leadership through our idecision and not thinking about those we get rid of.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
not all the people, just 313 conservative MPs and possibly about 100,000 conservative membership.
For the rest of us, GE is the time we'll give our verdict.
The problem is this simple
"You can fool some of the people all of the time
And all of the people some of the time"

And we are stuck very much in "Some of the time" alas
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
Not if you want to succeed! What is it with you people thinking you can do well in life without lying? People lie. You lie. I lie. Everybody lies. You do it every day in small ways and the more people 'under' you the more you have to lie. And by those lies you lead. How do you think we won the war? By telling people the truth? Ha. Grow up.
Not in my line of work. Professional ethics are not only, or even mainly, about morality. Its about verifiable quality, standards. Think of boeing's fiasco with the software on their new plane. Big lies cost big money. OTOH i can see that lies may be the currency in a cheap brothel, or brexit.
 
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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
Not in my line of work. Professional ethics are not only, or even mainly, about morality. Its about verifiable quality, standards. Think of boeing's fiasco with the software on their new plane. Big lies cost big money. OTOH i can see that lies may be the currency in a cheap brothel, or brexit.
I guess there's a time and a place for everything. The morally righteous get on my nerves with this idea that lying is inherently a bad thing. No - it's not. Time and place.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
Essential Criteria:

Must not lie.
Must have a track record of successfully delivering projects.
Strong negotiating skills.
Ability to concentrate and listen.

How’s that to start with?
Like he said - which you've not answered - give us a name. He asked for a name.

Anybody can reel off a character-list of the perfect person.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
We can all have ideals but you still havent offered a viable, or any for that matter, actual choices.
Which party? Which leader? Who in government? I, m afraid as bad as May was she was and still is best of them all.
Unless you are completely mad and want Corbyn, which I doubt.
Seems the concept my grandkids adopt when they come for tea is rife and spreading. A great big list of what they dont want, no idea what they do in end they have to have what they have ben given.
They can leave the brocolli, we have to put up with fools that fall into leadership through our idecision and not thinking about those we get rid of.
How on earth can you pontificate the way you do when the situation we are faced with is a direct result of your mad gamble in voting for Brexit?
By that act you demonstrated a remarkable lack of political judgement, basing your judgement on a personal fetish against the EU, which you clearly fail to understand , hardly qualifies you to preach .
It is for the likes of you to put matters right and suggest ways forward, not to hide as you do behind the notion that remainers have the responsibility to wipe up the mess you were party to creating
Your mess
Your problem
And your solution? complain that no one is able to see a way out of your mess
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Like he said - which you've not answered - give us a name. He asked for a name.

Anybody can reel off a character-list of the perfect person.
50 hertz was simply pointing out that no such person exists in the candidates, so none of them are suitable for high office
 

daveboy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2012
952
1,366
pontefract
Here is a Petition we all should sign. The Air Ambulance to be public funded.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
I guess there's a time and a place for everything. The morally righteous get on my nerves with this idea that lying is inherently a bad thing. No - it's not. Time and place.
What a moral attitude ! and you wonder why the Tory party is going down the drain.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Here is a Petition we all should sign. The Air Ambulance to be public funded.
Forget it, they would only sell it off to one of their "Friends" don't let them get within a million miles of controlling it
 
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wheeler

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2016
893
1,776
Scotland
Here is a Petition we all should sign. The Air Ambulance to be public funded.
With government funding comes government interference, not a good idea.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
50 hertz was simply pointing out that no such person exists in the candidates, so none of them are suitable for high office
That may be as it may be but he has not answered the question nor faced the challenge. Given the list we have - who would you suggest.

It's no good just being critical - you need to be able to come up with actual solutions. Which means an actual person not some ideal list of characteristics.
 
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