Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

I am sorry Zlatan, but he does have such qualities, charm he has in spades,the ability to change the agenda he has demonstrated.. this is leadership of a type.

he has the charm of a hollywood actor: teeth done up American style, permanent plastic smile, open arms to welcome anyone coming to his party to make a donation.
His ability to change the agenda consists of telling his adoring fans that everybody else lies on their manifestoes, but not him because, guess what, he doesn't have one and what's the point of having one in the first place, you only have to trust that his brain is better than anyone else's. He's like Donald Trump, goes with the wind, makes up policies in the middle of the night, depending what his last dream was about.
'I can see you coming ' comes to mind. In French, the word is 'pigeons', like in 'un pigeon, c'est facile à plumer '.

 

[oldgroaner]

Farage will do well on Thursday and his achievement will be to add to the disappointment of the Brexit voters when it achieves
Absolutely Nothing at all that benefits them or changes events.

Just another poll really, and not even an "advisory" one that won't change any of the facts
Brexit is doomed whatever happens.

We simply cannot survive on our own and will end up being drawn back into the EU in tie time for it to integrate into a United States of Europe.
After all the whole purpose of the leave campaign is simply to sell us to the USA or the Chinese to enrich the usual culprits among our elite.

The trick has been to con the proles that it is being done for their benefit when the opposite is true

Brexit is the ultimate mugging of a nation by a gang of traitorous villains on behalf of foreign money interests.

 

[vfr400]

Salvini:
"The real extremists are Merkel, Macron, Soros and Juncker - elites who betrayed and occupied Europe in the name of finance, money, multinationals and uncontrolled immigration."

 

[Woosh]

Salvini:
"The real extremists are Merkel, Macron, Soros and Juncker - elites who betrayed and occupied Europe in the name of finance, money, multinationals and uncontrolled immigration."

Salvini likes to blame the EU for all things that go wrong in Italy, and get back the 'free money' tree (ie devaluation) that was there before Italy joined the Eurozone.
All he achieved so far is to demoralise international investors and push Italy's debts into a new crisis.
Perversely, threatening to cause a new and bigger debt crisis may be enough to force the pace of change in the EU.

 

[Zlatan]

I am sorry Zlatan, but he does have such qualities, charm he has in spades,the ability to change the agenda he has demonstrated.. this is leadership of a type. Whether he has the tenacity ,mindset or integrity to be other than a demagogue is unproved

We, ll have to agree to disagree on that one Danidl.
But I suppose it depends on what you want leading and where you want to go.
A ship's captain will know exactly where he's heading and contingency plans for in case he cant make it. For a politician thats having clear policies. Farage has none. Leave, as has already been proved, is useless without knowing how to achieve it and what to do after having done so.. Thats been problem with them all, being popular and charismatic doesnt actually help navigate anywhere.
How is Farage going to leave and what is he going to do afterwards.???
Farage wants to take charge of a rudderless ship. A good leader would say hang on a minute... Fix the ship.

 

[vfr400]

Perversely, threatening to cause a new and bigger debt crisis may be enough to force the pace of change in the EU.

Quite right. There's going to be a massive shitfest sooner or later. The EU project, as it stands, is now on borrowed time. It therefore makes little difference whether our government leaves us in or pulls us out. These 54,000 posts have been a futile exercise.

 

[Woosh]

These 54,000 posts have been a futile exercise.

they are not futile, it's peer review.
You get to question your own judgment at a slow pace.
You don't get drowned out in the noise of thousands of posters in twitter, FB or the bbc website.
This thread isn't an echo chamber either, more like zlatan's BBQ.

 

[Nev]

These 54,000 posts have been a futile exercise.

I don't think they have. I have not read them all, but I think I have learned a lot from this thread. This is from both leavers and remainers. I don't like it when the posts become personal but I understand passions run high on both sides so a bit of that is bound to happen, but all in all the debate here as mainly been of a reasonable nature.

 

[50Hertz]

he has presentational skills.
If he had had leadership skills, UKIP would not have sunk to current depth.

I think Farage does have a type of leadership skill. His isn’t the type that causes you to follow him because of his vision and his ability to turn that vision into a better future. Farage is more akin to an immaculately dressed army officer sat upon a horse, rousing the troops for battle. The type of charismatic man who can convince his followers that their friends are their enemy and inspire them to advance towards a guaranteed defeat with many casualties, whilst he stands in a safe place and watches the carnage unfold.

What I describe is leadership and Farage has it.

 

[Zlatan]

I think Farage does have a type of leadership skill. His isn’t the type that causes you to follow him because of his vision and his ability to turn that vision into a better future. Farage is more akin to an immaculately dressed army officer sat upon a horse, rousing the troops for battle. The type of charismatic man who can convince his followers that their friends are their enemy and inspire them to advance towards a guaranteed defeat with many casualties, whilst he stands in a safe place and watches the carnage unfold.

What I describe is leadership and Farage has it.

Country grew to despise such "leaders" during WWI.. Phrase was lions led by donkeys. Agreed by that description Farage is a good leader.
By more objective measures (sane ones perhaps) both them and Farage are epitome of poor leaders.
So, yes, I can see why you see him as a good leader,but he isnt.
Blackadder goes forth springs to mind.
General Melchet was it?

 

[Danidl]

We, ll have to agree to disagree on that one Danidl.
But I suppose it depends on what you want leading and where you want to go.
A ship's captain will know exactly where he's heading and contingency plans for in case he cant make it. For a politician thats having clear policies. Farage has none. Leave, as has already been proved, is useless without knowing how to achieve it and what to do after having done so.. Thats been problem with them all, being popular and charismatic doesnt actually help navigate anywhere.
How is Farage going to leave and what is he going to do afterwards.???
Farage wants to take charge of a rudderless ship. A good leader would say hang on a minute... Fix the ship.

I fully agree with you. I never suggested he was a good leader,or that he would bring lemmings anywhere but over a cliff.

 

[Zlatan]

I fully agree with you. I never suggested he was a good leader,or that he would bring lemmings anywhere but over a cliff.

Thanks Danidl. Appreciated.

 

[Nev]

Rumours circulation of a cabinet resignation anyone heard anything?

 

[Woosh]

Rumours circulation of a cabinet resignation anyone heard anything?

Jeremy Hunt?
They are queueing to ask TM to leave.

 

[oldgroaner]

We, ll have to agree to disagree on that one Danidl.
But I suppose it depends on what you want leading and where you want to go.
A ship's captain will know exactly where he's heading and contingency plans for in case he cant make it. For a politician thats having clear policies. Farage has none. Leave, as has already been proved, is useless without knowing how to achieve it and what to do after having done so.. Thats been problem with them all, being popular and charismatic doesnt actually help navigate anywhere.
How is Farage going to leave and what is he going to do afterwards.???
Farage wants to take charge of a rudderless ship. A good leader would say hang on a minute... Fix the ship.

In this case beach the ship (remain) and fix the leaks

 

[vfr400]

 

[50Hertz]

Country grew to despise such "leaders" during WWI.. Phrase was lions led by donkeys. Agreed by that description Farage is a good leader.
By more objective measures (sane ones perhaps) both them and Farage are epitome of poor leaders.
So, yes, I can see why you see him as a good leader,but he isnt.
Blackadder goes forth springs to mind.
General Melchet was it?

And they will grow to despise Farage if he has the opportunity to lead them to what will be a heavy defeat outside the EU. He is like one of those WW1 Generals, clueless when it comes to the crunch, and well behind the front line. Meanwhile, the Brexiteers will go over the top and be cut down by the economic bullets.

It can’t be denied though, he is good at his craft. It is one type of many different types of leadership, and Farage has it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Lord Nigel Tweets

Anyone care to enlighten me ? what is he going to do about it?

 

[oldgroaner]

The Milkshake thing was bound to cause wannabees

[/USER]
@[B]BurgerKingUK[/B]
FollowFollow @BurgerKingUK
More
Dear people of Scotland. We’re selling milkshakes all weekend. Have fun. Love BK
And this
McDonald's releases new Tommy Robinson McThuggets with free milkshake
McDonald’s are making hay after one of their milkshakes was thrown over Tommy Robinson.

Reprehensible!

 

[vfr400]

Absolutely incredible. A man throws a brick at Tommy Robinson, admits it and gets a police caution. Let's see what the guy gets for throwing a milkshake over Nigel Farage. The bloke that threw an egg at Jeremy Corbin got jailed.

Preston man, 36, handed caution after brick is hurled at Tommy Robinson campaign van

A man has been cautioned after a brick was thrown at Tommy Robinson's campaign van in Preston.

www.lep.co.uk