Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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I understand your question is rhetorical but as I mentioned in a previous post, it's the British way although really, it's the tory way. it's what the rich, land-owning monarchists do in the name of the people. That they do is simply a huge lie as any such military interventions are not about protecting the interests of ordinary people; they are all to do with the interests of the rich and only the rich.

Those people I describe are tories and anyone who has ever read history could come to no other conclusion. The tory way is imposition, aggression and downright violence. That has always been their way of controlling the lower classes and weak, foreign nations.

May is simply the latest in a long line of fascists with no interest in any kind of social improvement for the population. Her main concern and that of all tories is about increasing the wealth of the few at the expense of the many. In that regard, any overseas sojourns by British troops makes money for the rich suppliers of military equipment and armaments for which those on PAYE, the only people who pay the correct amount of tax, foot the bill - so much for austerity and being 'all in it
together'!

Tom
And the last much publicised Syrian intervention has been a debacle too
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-civil-war-isis-uk-assad-iraq-air-strikes-phantom-allies-government-a7319426.html
But then, they always are, and we end up not only with millions of human beings with ruined lives and displaced from Home, Family and Country but the Brexit situation as collateral damage to us.
Madness.
 
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oldgroaner

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UKIP where true wisdom rules (From the independent)
"
Experts are wrong about the moon causing ocean tides, Ukip MP Douglas Carswell insists
The MP says the sun, not the moon, primarily causes ocean tides"

So glad that the truth is out at last
Unfortunately the truth that has emerged is that this man is wrong again!
But then there's nothing really new about that is there?
 
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tillson

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And just to prove we never learn, this from the Daily Mail this morning.

"Brief encounter: Theresa May meets outgoing Obama as she tells UN Britain will put troops into Somalia and £750m foreign aid into immigration hotspots'. But who will her long-term Special Relationship be with?

Once again a military intervention and as if in penance a pittance spent
allegedly intended to help the situation, but actually as both a sop and means of making desperate people suffer, and keeping them out and in harms way.
Why oh why are we doing another Military Intervention? have we gone mad?
Agree. We should keep out and stop intervening. It's the same repetitive cycle of misery, instability and failure over and over again.

Also the foreign aid is woefully inadequate. I'm all for providing help and areas of safety for people in their own country.
 

tillson

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UKIP where true wisdom rules (From the independent)
"
Experts are wrong about the moon causing ocean tides, Ukip MP Douglas Carswell insists
The MP says the sun, not the moon, primarily causes ocean tides"

So glad that the truth is out at last
Unfortunately the truth that has emerged is that this man is wrong again!
But then there's nothing really new about that is there?
Well it's actually the Earth Sun and Moon combination which causes tides. Also, The Sun's gravity does have a component part, but it isn't the Sun alone, as I say, it's all three.
 

oldgroaner

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Agree. We should keep out and stop intervening. It's the same repetitive cycle of misery, instability and failure over and over again.

Also the foreign aid is woefully inadequate. I'm all for providing help and areas of safety for people in their own country.
Basically I agree on the point of non interference, but wonder how "providing safe areas in their own country" can ever be made to work without Military intervention starting out as a peacekeeping excercise and ending up as a war of aggresion.
 
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derf

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Basically I agree on the point of non interference, but wonder how "providing safe areas in their own country" can ever be made to work without Military intervention starting out as a peacekeeping excercise and ending up as a war of aggresion.
yes, r5ecent attack on red crescent convoy in Syria comes to mind - the next logical step (as with "safe areas") is to provide military cover, but that is one more perilous step closer to direct contact between NATO and Russian/Syrian military and the prospect of a much more serious war.
 

tillson

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Basically I agree on the point of non interference, but wonder how "providing safe areas in their own country" can ever be made to work without Military intervention starting out as a peacekeeping excercise and ending up as a war of aggresion.
Tricky one that and it would require a huge international agreement that would be hard to broker.
 

oldgroaner

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Well it's actually the Earth Sun and Moon combination which causes tides. Also, The Sun's gravity does have a component part, but it isn't the Sun alone, as I say, it's all three.
The point was that Carswell incorrectly attributed the greater effect to the Sun, regardless of how you would like to put a spin on it!
And yes, we know about the other effects, it's a pity he wasn't so well informed.
 

tillson

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The point was that Carswell incorrectly attributed the greater effect to the Sun, regardless of how you would like to put a spin on it!
And yes, we know about the other effects, it's a pity he wasn't so well informed.
I've only read the report in The Guardian which is equally incorrect in suggesting that it is the Moon's gravity which causes the tides. No mention of the other factor of similar magnitude.

But, if there was no Sun, would we still get tides? I guess not.
 

oldgroaner

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I've only read the report in The Guardian which is equally incorrect in suggesting that it is the Moon's gravity which causes the tides. No mention of the other factor of similar magnitude.

But, if there was no Sun, would we still get tides? I guess not.
Yes we would and the difference would be noticeable at certain times due to alignment effects when the lack of the suns effects would effect the tidal range both high and low
It is not correct to say the Moon doesn't cause the tides, it does, more correctly it is not the only but by far the major cause.

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oldgroaner

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An interesting article in the Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-areas-backed-leave-eu-government-support-report-a7319261.html
They correlate the level of Brexit vote support more with dissatisfaction with the Government's performance than either the EU or immigration in depressed areas.

It would be interesting to see if that is the case, what a Brexit agreement that makes the plight of these areas worse causes as a reaction from the public.
There could be very rough going ahead!
 

tillson

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An interesting article in the Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-areas-backed-leave-eu-government-support-report-a7319261.html
They correlate the level of Brexit vote support more with dissatisfaction with the Government's performance than either the EU or immigration in depressed areas.

It would be interesting to see if that is the case, what a Brexit agreement that makes the plight of these areas worse causes as a reaction from the public.
There could be very rough going ahead!
There may well be trouble or it may turn out better than expected. All of this endless prophidising is not going to alter anything.

All that we can predict with any degree of confidence is that we will be leaving the EU. Regardless of what May wsnts, what MPs want or what you wsnt, we will be leaving.

It will be suicidal in terms if holding power for any party to defy the referendum. Any party doing that will guarantee themselves a minor role in opposition for a generation. They know it, we know it, so let's get on with it.

Talking negatively can only do harm and seeing as you are so concerned about the harmful effects of Brexit, why not do something to mitigate them by being more positive.

Its going to happen, the gene is out of the lamp, its impossible to go back, UKIP are going to take a fatal number of votes from whichever party rejects the referenfum result. You must embrace BREXIT if you are truly concerned about the future.

UKIP are here and they are influential. Fact.
 

oldgroaner

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There may well be trouble or it may turn out better than expected. All of this endless prophidising is not going to alter anything.

All that we can predict with any degree of confidence is that we will be leaving the EU. Regardless of what May wsnts, what MPs want or what you wsnt, we will be leaving.

It will be suicidal in terms if holding power for any party to defy the referendum. Any party doing that will guarantee themselves a minor role in opposition for a generation. They know it, we know it, so let's get on with it.

Talking negatively can only do harm and seeing as you are so concerned about the harmful effects of Brexit, why not do something to mitigate them by being more positive.

Its going to happen, the gene is out of the lamp, its impossible to go back, UKIP are going to take a fatal number of votes from whichever party rejects the referenfum result. You must embrace BREXIT if you are truly concerned about the future.

UKIP are here and they are influential. Fact.
Nice try, but it isn't going to work, the odds are very much against this being anything other than shambolic and your wishful thinking is pointless.
And it won't change anything either.

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tillson

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Nice try, but it isn't going to work, the odds are very much against this being anything other than shambolic and your wishful thinking is pointless.
And it won't change anything either.

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But I don't understand the endless negative comments. Sometimes you need to let things that you have no influence over, go. I think that time had arrived for you.
 

oldgroaner

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But I don't understand the endless negative comments. Sometimes you need to let things that you have no influence over, go. I think that time had arrived for you.
Not at all, the process hasn't even begun yet, has it? And already the cracks are there for all to see, patience tillson, the game is not yet afoot, this is just the "phoney war" before the action starts, and then we shall what a splendid idea brexit is or isn't.

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oldgroaner

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Brexit has had 'no major effect' on economy so far
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37428764

Keep the positivity flowing.
The economy isn't the problem, surrendering completely into Tory hands is and nothing whatever will stop that being a disaster for all concerned.
That would still apply if fifty pounds notes grew on trees and the streets were paved with gold.
That is where you made a mistake voting for brexit
Just how do you propose we can get rid of them? Vote ukip?
Very droll! [emoji1]

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tillson

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The economy isn't the problem, surrendering completely into Tory hands is and nothing whatever will stop that being a disaster for all concerned.
That would still apply if fifty pounds notes grew on trees and the streets were paved with gold.
That is where you made a mistake voting for brexit
Just how do you propose we can get rid of them? Vote ukip?
Very droll! [emoji1]

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It's going to be tough to get the Tories out after Saturday when JC is re elected to lead Labour. I would rather vote for JC than the range of muppets Labour are currently fielding. They need a good clear out. Get rid of the dead wood.
 

oldgroaner

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It's going to be tough to get the Tories out after Saturday when JC is re elected to lead Labour. I would rather vote for JC than the range of muppets Labour are currently fielding. They need a good clear out. Get rid of the dead wood.
Agreed but you haven't answered the question, as labour can only be viewed as a long term prospect and a lot of damage will be done before then by the Tory's

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