Brexit, for once some facts.

[Fingers]

Is there any rational reason for making that post, or is it a cry for help?

Rest easy old friend. He was making a joke.

But, and I know you were just trying to be funny, but please keep it on topic.

Your meanderings are the stuff of legend and we all appreciate your input but it really does disrupt the flow of the thread.

Please do keep on topic.

Thanks.

 

[50Hertz]

I don't agree, despite the Honda announcement. Firstly the tariffs are not ceasing now, they are going to be gradually phased down over time.

So in effect it's being said that Honda are volunteering to pay tariffs for a while and also permanently bear the high cost of shipping from Japan for no reason whatsoever, rather than continuing here in a successful plant that already exists.

Of course that is rubbish, Brexit is undoubtedly a major factor, just as it was for Nissan's model cancellation, JLR's stoppage of investment and the huge bribe we've just given Toyota to continue to make their compact family car here.

Here is the real truth. Since the Brexit vote we've had an ever increasing number of cancellations of investments, moves of staffs, offices, product manufacturing and factories into mainland EU, these becoming ever more serious.

But in the decade before the referendum there were almost none of these. The cause is blindingly obvious.
.

From the BBC:

Honda has confirmed it will close its Swindon car plant in 2021, with the loss of about 3,500 jobs.

Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit.

I don’t think there is anything else I can add. Honda’s words say it all.

I believe Brexit will cost jobs, but we can’t go around blaming everything on Brexit.

 

[Zlatan]

It was a cry for help OG, are you busy?
Some of these are funny...

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/20/hull-winning-city-of-cult_n_4308156.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ec_carp=8045179677685932077

Hull is to Culture as Wonga is to ethical loans...
Which brings me to.... and its a serious question...
Under our caring, socially minded EU loan companies are still allowed to advertise at prime time (last night 8.30 ish pm) loans with 1238% interest rates. Thought some EU law had banned loan sharking..???

Back to Hull, just to wind the OG up.. How come the UK side of North Sea gets Hull, Immingham and Grimsby whereas other side gets Bruge and Rotterdam. Both of which must be amongst prettiest cities in world whereas Hull and Grimsby arent. I suspect its Junkers fault. Good job Hull has had Prescott sticking up for it and keeping cash away from Bridlington.

 

[Woosh]

From the BBC:

Honda has confirmed it will close its Swindon car plant in 2021, with the loss of about 3,500 jobs.

Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit.

I don’t think there is anything else I can add. Honda’s words say it all.

I believe Brexit will cost jobs, but we can’t go around blaming everything on Brexit.

what Honda say amounts to: Oh no, it's not you, it's me.
Honda could have converted their Swindon factory to assembling electric cars, however the threat of no deal does not fill them with confidence.

 

[50Hertz]

what Honda say amounts to: Oh no, it's not you, it's me.
Honda could have converted their Swindon factory to assembling electric cars, however the threat of no deal does not fill them with confidence.

Read what they said, “it has nothing to do with Brexit” Honda’s words, not mine. What those words mean is that it has nothing to do with Brexit. I can’t break it down any more simply for you.

 

[tommie]

Zlatan said:
Trying to get out of Hull...

Is there any rational reason for making that post

Yes it`s a most helpful and informative post,
if you were some innocent that had strayed into this particular cesspit you would want the means to get outta there ASAP!!

 

[flecc]

From the BBC:

Honda has confirmed it will close its Swindon car plant in 2021, with the loss of about 3,500 jobs.

Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit.

I don’t think there is anything else I can add. Honda’s words say it all.

I believe Brexit will cost jobs, but we can’t go around blaming everything on Brexit.

Wasn't what Honda originally said or what the BBC originally issued, which was that and also that Brexit was a factor. No doubt a chat with the Minister brought the tweak.

And there's still the illogicallity of Honda volunteering to pay the costs of closure including the thousands of redundancy payments, substantial shipping costs, and tariffs into the EU until they are finally phased out.

I'm not so easily fobbed off.
.

 

[Zlatan]

what Honda say amounts to: Oh no, it's not you, it's me.
Honda could have converted their Swindon factory to assembling electric cars, however the threat of no deal does not fill them with confidence.

Brexit certainly hasnt helped but the entire auto industry is in flux and turmoil. Problem is everybody is heralding the demise of ICE, and in not such a long time, yet in reality the technology to replace it hasnt actually materialised.
At the moment there just is not the infrastructure to cope with electric cars even if they could solve steady state long range capability problem.
Nobody actually knows where market will be in 10,20 or even 30 years. Thats a first for industry. In past we, ve only grumbled at inefficiency and environmental issues consequently industry only paid lip service to changing, and in some cases even conned us.
What will replace my campervan or car, both capable of 500 plus miles between fill ups taking 10 minutes. As yet we dont have an answer.
Will we all change behaviour, keep ICE or will electric problems be solved???
Governments are making decisions as if they know whereas industry knows full well it hasnt got a clue.
Hence the contraction whilst answers are worked out.

 

[flecc]

Brexit certainly hasnt helped but the entire auto industry is in flux and turmoil. Problem is everybody is heralding the demise of ICE, and in not such a long time, yet in reality the technology to replace it hasnt actually materialised.

Got it in one Zlatan, exactly right.

One thing is certain, Honda's statement makes no sense. The main market is now overwhelmingly for petrol cars and Swindon only makes petrol cars.

So market changes do not account for closing that plant.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Got it in one Zlatan, exactly right.

One thing is certain, Honda's statement makes no sense. The main market is now overwhelmingly for petrol cars and Swindon only makes petrol cars.

So market changes do not account for closing that plant.
.

Thanks Flecc.

 

[Fingers]

Wasn't what Honda originally said or what the BBC originally issued, which was that and also that Brexit was a factor. No doubt a chat with the Minister brought the tweak.

And there's still the illogicallity of Honda volunteering to pay the costs of closure including the thousands of redundancy payments, substantial shipping costs, and tariffs into the EU until they are finally phased out.

I'm not so easily fobbed off.
.

Honda isn’t moving production to the EU. It’s moving to Japan.

Global slump in car buying hits profits. It makes corporate decision to move back home.

It wasn’t Brexit it was Thatcherism that caused this. You can’t rely on foreign owned companies.

Honda will be making nothing in the EU.

 

[oldgroaner]

Rest easy old friend. He was making a joke.

But, and I know you were just trying to be funny, but please keep it on topic.

Your meanderings are the stuff of legend and we all appreciate your input but it really does disrupt the flow of the thread.

Please do keep on topic.

Thanks.

Your attempts to disrupt the debate with nonsense won't work, so desist
Thanks

 

[Danidl]

Brexit certainly hasnt helped but the entire auto industry is in flux and turmoil. Problem is everybody is heralding the demise of ICE, and in not such a long time, yet in reality the technology to replace it hasnt actually materialised.
At the moment there just is not the infrastructure to cope with electric cars even if they could solve steady state long range capability problem.
Nobody actually knows where market will be in 10,20 or even 30 years. Thats a first for industry. In past we, ve only grumbled at inefficiency and environmental issues consequently industry only paid lip service to changing, and in some cases even conned us.
What will replace my campervan or car, both capable of 500 plus miles between fill ups taking 10 minutes. As yet we dont have an answer.
Will we all change behaviour, keep ICE or will electric problems be solved???
Governments are making decisions as if they know whereas industry knows full well it hasnt got a clue.
Hence the contraction whilst answers are worked out.

Good post,but you need to separate between the technology,(electric motors , batteries),which does exist, and which is likely to have only incremental improvements and the implementation or infrastructure , which does not.
Even with our current technology, we could have 5 minute Energy fills ,if the implementation was to replace the battery pack ,by jacking up the car and sliding one in or out..

 

[oldgroaner]

Honda isn’t moving production to the EU. It’s moving to Japan.

Global slump in car buying hits profits. It makes corporate decision to move back home.

It wasn’t Brexit it was Thatcherism that caused this. You can’t rely on foreign owned companies.

Honda will be making nothing in the EU.

Not important is it? what is that they will be making nothing here., and the way things are going very few others will.
If you think that isn't due to the situation brought about by Brexit freezing us out of the EU Japan Deal, then you are deluded.

 

[Fingers]

Not important is it? what is that they will be making nothing here., and the way things are going very few others will.
If you think that isn't due to the situation brought about by Brexit freezing us out of the EU Japan Deal, then you are deluded.

I appreciate you don’t read words so good.

So I will say it again.

Honda is moving it’s entire operations out of the EU. Had we remained this wouldn’t change what’s happened.

This is down to past manufacturing policy from government.

What Brexit does mean though is we can decide to favour South Korean cars. Indian manufacturers etc. We can pivot our reliance on Japan.

I’m not advocating that as our relationship with Japan is good. But this is what can happen if you put all your eggs in one basket.

I appreciate the on topic comment old friend.

 

[oldgroaner]

Zlatan said:
Trying to get out of Hull...


Yes it`s a most helpful and informative post,
if you were some innocent that had strayed into this particular cesspit you would want the means to get outta there ASAP!!

Tommie, what are you rambling on about? do you actually know? are you claiming that Hull is a cesspit?
Can you really be that ignorant?

 

[oldgroaner]

I appreciate you don’t read words so good.

So I will say it again.

Honda is moving it’s entire operations out of the EU. Had we remained this wouldn’t change what’s happened.

This is down to past manufacturing policy from government.

What Brexit does mean though is we can decide to favour South Korean cars. Indian manufacturers etc. We can pivot our reliance on Japan.

I’m not advocating that as our relationship with Japan is good. But this is what can happen if you put all your eggs in one basket.

I appreciate the on topic comment old friend.

Once again you make the the wrong assumption, why should any other nationality open up a factory here?
What is in it for them except for a local market here they can serve from their EU or own country factories?
We have nothing to offer as an inducement, they already sell cars here. and we have no special access to the EU to offer them.
Truly Brexit is a disaster.

 

[Fingers]

Tommie, what are you rambling on about? do you actually know? are you claiming that Hull is a cesspit?
Can you really be that ignorant?

Please keep the Hull comments to the Hull thread old friend.

This is the Brexit thread.

Thank you.

 

[Fingers]

Once again you make the the wrong assumption, why should any other nationality open up a factory here?
What is in it for them except for a local market here they can serve from their EU or own country factories?
We have nothing to offer as an inducement, they already sell cars here. and we have no special access to the EU to offer them.
Truly Brexit is a disaster.

It’s called negotiating. We say to Germany, Spain, Italy, France. You can sell your cars here tariff free. In return we would like to export our foreign cars to you.

The real issue here isn’t Brexit. It’s our reliance on foreign companies providing us jobs.

 

[Zlatan]

Good post,but you need to separate between the technology,(electric motors , batteries),which does exist, and which is likely to have only incremental improvements and the implementation or infrastructure , which does not.
Even with our current technology, we could have 5 minute Energy fills ,if the implementation was to replace the battery pack ,by jacking up the car and sliding one in or out..

Fair point Danid.
However, the logistics for your solution are almost impossible.
The recharge time is as salient as the range, as you correctly alluded to,its probably more important. Under your scheme the big problemwould be the number of batteries required their distribution, their ownership, their storage and their impact on the environment. You would need treble the number of batteries to vehicles. Imagine the storage issues on motorway service areas. I dont think it could work and thats before we examine the range of batteries required. (,eg a Leaf versus a a Lexus)
IMHO battery exchange is a none starter.
I suspect running our present cars on hydrogen is much more feasible but the prpblem is nobody actually knows.
We all have theoretical solutions. Reality will be different. Its the unknown the idustry cant cope with.