Yes they did deny it at the time, probably to avoid the EU investigating on the grounds of an illegal subsidy. The government offer wasn't illegal though, since no payment was made or to be made before leaving the EU.
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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I believe heat pumps are not actually geo thermic. Daughter has a air sourced heat pump system, which basically takes energy from cool air and kicks it out cooler. Ground heat pumps work in same way,they need a fair amount of power to operate but will provide upto 3 to 5 times the amount consumed in heat output. (think using fridge pipes at back of fridge to heat stuff)
Years and years ago a similar system used Thames to heat Albert hall. (not sure of actual temps but basically water from Thames came in at let say 13 degrees, left at 6 degrees and the energy left behind used to heat the building, ie a water sourced heat pump. Mitsubishi are leaders in air sourced heat pumps(seen quite a few but no other makers) . A friend in France has same system but ground sourced.(You need a big garden) He heats pool and runs central heating. System consumes at peak( I believe) 5kwh but provides 20kwh.
I dont think such systems can produce electricity (I have never seen one anyway) They are limited to heating. (or cooling when required)
I think they are refered to as ground sourced heat pumps. I believe geothermic refers to actual heat produced in volcanic active areas. (could be wrong tho)
Daughters system works down to minus 5 C at which temp it still doubles energy consumed. (ie consumes 5kwh but provides 10kwh heating. At 15 degrees C it operates at x5 but who needs heating when temp is 15...
Below - 5 the system becomes purely electrical,at which point ground sourced would still be operating.
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Those few days are likely to occur when a high pressure area settles over the British Isles.
If this occurs in winter with power demand at its maximum, then wind generation is useless.
If you end up freezing in the dark it will be no comfort to know that the wind is likely to pick up in a day or two
I, d guess you'll be corect. Remember it being talked about in Lectures at Uni in 70,s when studying about heat pumps.I think it was cutting edge at time.Had a few beers since then..
Ground sourced ones are partially geothermic, those in a few new London houses are for example. The pipes carrying the liquid go down six metres into the soil where the ground temperature is appreciably warmer. That's then compressed to raise the temperature further to make it useful.
I've got air heat pump climate control in my Nissan Leaf and it's very effective and rapid acting.
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I live on the North Wales coast and I have the same experience as you, windless days are extremely rare.
The work was all part of the home of the Future project, intended to be part of all newly built homes intended to drastically reduce both gas and electrical consumption when applied on a mass scale.
But nothing came of it
We did that all those years ago in the 60's, ah well, never mind
Probably nothing new.
North-east England will pay the price for decades of dishonesty about Nissan
David Conn
Thatcher’s ministers knew EU membership was vital in attracting the Japanese carmaker. No one told the public
The sprawling site near Sunderland of the giant Japanese car manufacturer Nissan is a fine-tuned product of Britain’s participation in the European Union. The company’s decision to pull the making of its proposed new X-Trail model out of that plant is a disastrous consequence of the failure to explain this to the British people.
The virtual absence of public explanation about the benefits of EU membership was exploited in the 2016 referendum by the leave campaign, and enabled its proponents to dismiss well-informed warnings, then and now, as scaremongering. Even on Sunday, when Nissan itself explained that Brexit uncertainty was a factor in its decision to build the new SUV in Japan, airtime was still given to Brexit campaigners denying this. Prominent among them, predictably, was Jacob Rees-Mogg, a backbench Conservative MP with no discernible car industry expertise or experience, whose Somerset constituency could hardly be further away from the north-east.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/04/north-east-england-nissan-eu-membership-japanese-carmaker
North-east England will pay the price for decades of dishonesty about Nissan
David Conn
Thatcher’s ministers knew EU membership was vital in attracting the Japanese carmaker. No one told the public
The sprawling site near Sunderland of the giant Japanese car manufacturer Nissan is a fine-tuned product of Britain’s participation in the European Union. The company’s decision to pull the making of its proposed new X-Trail model out of that plant is a disastrous consequence of the failure to explain this to the British people.
The virtual absence of public explanation about the benefits of EU membership was exploited in the 2016 referendum by the leave campaign, and enabled its proponents to dismiss well-informed warnings, then and now, as scaremongering. Even on Sunday, when Nissan itself explained that Brexit uncertainty was a factor in its decision to build the new SUV in Japan, airtime was still given to Brexit campaigners denying this. Prominent among them, predictably, was Jacob Rees-Mogg, a backbench Conservative MP with no discernible car industry expertise or experience, whose Somerset constituency could hardly be further away from the north-east.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/04/north-east-england-nissan-eu-membership-japanese-carmaker
8mph is not windless and if you are walking into it will feel like 12, if its cold will feel more. And generally 8mph wind will be 5mph gusting 12 mph... All pretty useless for harnessing energy...
Windy and windless are such subjective terms.
A paraglider will say its windy at 12 mph, a Windsurfer not till 20 plus mph.
A Jamaican would call 25mph fairly calm when a footballer or cyclist would say its blowing a gale..
Anything under 12mph is not really productive for energy production.
Agreed UK rarely has trully windless days. It is sat in Atlantic afterall. We have loads and loads of sub 12 mph. If we didnt Windsurfers wouldnt be flying out to Canaries, South Africa Leucate, Cape Verde etc etc looking for wind...
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Yep and I stand corrected. Geothermic does refer to any heat exchage mechanism underground.We did that all those years ago in the 60's, ah well, never mind
I, d got it in my head Geothermic refers to heat sources from volcanic activity. It obviously doesnt.
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I actually have a Air to water heat pump.Danfoss 11KW and might at peak consume 3.5 Kw electric..i have a meter across my full supply. On the few times it is struggling, it calls in the oil burner for a short while. These systems are very popular around here. To put it in context, I got a half fill of oil 500 litres last autumn, and it was possibly 5 years before that ,I last got a fill.
You are actually correct. Geothermal traditionally means heat rising from the core via the mantle towards the surface , and is basically from radioactive decay. The use of Geothermal for heat absorbed in the first metre of surface from solar radiation is a misnomer. Even the deeper vertical bores of 100 metres are primarily utilising heat flowing down from the surface ,rather than flowing upwards .
My goodness that is impressive,
but you have the extra electricity cost to factor in, when would you get a return on your investment?
and how about the noise, would it annoy the neighbours? !
Our electricity costs were/ are high. Until he moved out a year ago, a son would have had an oxygen concentrator at 400 w on almost 24/7 and a high powered games computer close on a kw . ..so they would have been nearly 50% of our load. . I like to compare it to the heating an aunt had in her house,where she would have been heating one room with a 2 kw Double bar fire, and we heat a 250 sq m house for less.
We have had a heat pump for close on 10 years. However we did have a catastrophic failure with the first one,also Danfoss.. a rare failure in the compressor motor,so we were given a special deal .. less than cost on this newer and much better model. We were kida a reference site. We also sited the replacement in a better location,which has better air flow and produces less noise.
Noise is not a problem,. It makes less than than an oil burner ,and is much less irritating than a vacuum cleaner. The blower on our neighbors oil burner is louder.
It is basically maintenance free.. we just have to check the water level in the radiator and under floor periodically.
I think our company missed a huge opportunity it had within it's grasp, imagine if there had been wide scale installations, how this would have affected the whole Energy consumption of the nation if you removed even a small proportion of domestic heating and hot water from the equation?
Look at this schematic from 2009
Imagine what might have been
It's a bit like a line from a Science Fiction Film.
"When you are an Engineer no one can hear your scream"
(especially if you run it at least part of the time on Solar power, though of course that wasn't an option back then)
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