Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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there may be a serious point to test the real 'will of the people' by having a no deal brexit so that we can all witness what will happen to the value of the Pound, the cost of food and how well the NHS copes with a month of chaos.
It will also split the conservatives from top to bottom, just in time for a fresh May GE.
 

gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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Yes, and to give further information:

The present X Trail is built at Sunderland but in very low numbers now due to dieselgate, so that is influencing the decision to abandon plans to build the new model there. If that could have been successful it would be an addition, but dieselgate makes that less likely since it's always been a diesel only model and may be again using diesel. That we dont know at present.

Nissan's suffering over dieselgate has already happened with the slump in X-Trail sales and a sharp reduction in Qashqai sales, that also being heavily diesel dependent.

Nissan's overall car sales in 2017/2018 are 16% down on what they once were and the Sunderland workforce down from 9000 to 7000, all due to dieselgate.

Some 28,000 are employed overall for Nissan's Sunderland production, the rest being in the several satellite firms in the North East who supply Nissan with parts for their operation. No doubt they will have been affected too.
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isn't there a general trend downwards interms of people buying new vehicles. Probably down to many factors, Brexit being one of them. Also govt keeps messing about with taxes and allowances etc. A friend of mine has for the last 3 or 4 years had a Mitsubishi Outlander hybrid 2 of them . This year he has gone back to diesel because all deals have ended. They seem to keep moving the goalposts. I suppose another reason is that cars are so much better made these days, less prone to rusting so people are hanging on to them. My car is 8 years old and I decided to have a look round, but I would have had to pay a lot of money out for a much lower spec so didn't bother
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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We don't need oranges anyway, the good old British grown potato has some 40% of the vitamin C of oranges. Since we eat far more spuds than oranges we aren't going to go short of vitamin C, and it's in all other fruits and veg as well.
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Had been thinking about potatoes - but it does depend on how they are grown, stored and cooked.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Had been thinking about potatoes - but it does depend on how they are grown, stored and cooked.
True, but I think without oranges we'd still be hard pushed not to get enough vitamin C.

I lived through the seven year WW2 and we didn't have oranges or other citrus fruit for about 8 years or so, but none of us suffered rickets. Potatoes and other veg, plus the occasional home grown fruits like apples, pears, plums, cherries, gooseberries, blackberries etc kept us healthy.
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Front page today "Boris Bins Brexit"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-dumps-brexit-parliamentary-13944587
Boris Johnson dumps Brexit parliamentary paperwork in fuel station bin
EXCLUSIVE: The king of gaffes dumped 70 pages of work into a petrol station trash can - including handwritten memos on the economy
Bumbling Boris Johnson has trashed his own Brexit plans – dumping a load of paperwork in a petrol station bin.


The calamitous Conservative stuffed 70 pages of parliamentary work in the rubbish container after pulling up with a passenger, thought to be new love Carrie Symonds, 30.
But he was in such a rush that some pages fell to the ground as he ran across the forecourt to pay for his petrol.


The documents – including handwritten memos on the economy, the Irish backstop and his Brexit views – were picked up by a baffled member of the public and shown to the Sunday Mirror.


The finder said: “He says he wants to be Prime Minister. But how could he look after the country when he can’t even keep hold of his own notes on the biggest crisis in decades? It’s really unbelievable he put these documents in a public bin without shredding them.


“But he is just like you imagine him in real life, blustering about with no awareness.”



In the handwritten notes and official documents, 54-year-old BoJo suggested there is “no strategy” for leaving the EU without a deal.

That last bit is interesting..........
 
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OxygenJames

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From the Institute of Fiscal Studies.....it sort of says that we were all correct,the ultimate effect on food prices is actually dependant upon political decisions.

How food prices will change following the UK’s actual departure from the EU remains highly uncertain. Currently, the UK benefits from tariff-free trade within the EU, and the UK and other EU members levy common tariffs on products imported into the EU from other countries. As is generally the case across the world, these tariffs are, on average, higher on agricultural products than on non-agricultural products and there is a lot of variation in tariffs both across and within broad food groups.
If the UK leaves the EU customs union, it would be free to adjust the tariffs it charges on agricultural goods. Under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules, the UK would not be able to set tariffs that discriminate between trading partners, except as part of a free trade agreement or to give developing countries special access to its market. If the UK and the post-Brexit EU fail to strike a free trade deal, it is likely tariffs would be imposed on EU imports into the UK, as the UK would be unable to impose zero tariffs on imports from the EU without also extending tariff-free access to all other WTO members. This would raise the price of food imported from the EU, which is the major source of food imports into the UK, accounting for 70% of gross food imports. Therefore if the UK did not strike a free trade deal with the EU, food prices would be likely to rise significantly. This could potentially be ameliorated if the UK reduced tariffs across the board by a substantial margin and/or decided to accept cheaper food imports that do not meet current EU regulatory standards. There would also be costs associated with non-tariff barriers, such as customs checks.
The UK could reduce tariffs from their current level, and may choose to do so, especially for imports of foods that are not domestically produced – for example, oranges and olives. It would also be free to strike free trade deals with other countries. In addition, if the UK ceased to be a full member of the EU single market, it would be able to apply different regulatory standards to food imports, leading to the possibility of importing hitherto banned produce (such as chlorinated chicken). Such changes would serve to lower the price of foods imported from non-EU countries. That said, most advanced countries seek to protect their domestic farmers through a combination of price supports, subsidies and trade barriers. The extent to which the UK would choose to act differently in this regard is not clear at this stage.
Tariff changes and movements in the exchange rate directly affect the cost of getting imported food products onto supermarket shelves. This will naturally feed into the prices faced by consumers for imported goods. The extent to which tariff changes and exchange rate movements feed through to prices is uncertain and may vary across goods. The prices of domestically produced products are also likely to change, for two reasons. First, many domestically produced products use imported inputs, and changes to firms’ costs will tend to feed through to the prices they charge for their final products. Second, changes in the price of imported goods are likely to lead to changes in the price of similar domestically produced goods because of competitive effects: for example, if the prices of imported goods rise, then domestic producers who compete in the same markets might take advantage of the opportunity to increase their prices too.
How might these changes affect different households? The first thing to consider is that lower-income households allocate a higher proportion of their spending to food than higher-income households (23% of spending for the lowest-income tenth of households versus 10% for the highest-income tenth). Poor households are therefore more exposed to rises in the general level of food prices.
Right. Yes. My point (well one of them) - again for the millionth time (on this one) - is that if we decide to drop tariffs - particularly on products we have no internal production of (EG ORANGES - hi OG) - then we can get that stuff cheaper.

But you're right that IS a political decision. One you would think is a no-brainer but with this lot in power it's anybody's guess.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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30,578
isn't there a general trend downwards interms of people buying new vehicles. Probably down to many factors, Brexit being one of them. Also govt keeps messing about with taxes and allowances etc. A friend of mine has for the last 3 or 4 years had a Mitsubishi Outlander hybrid 2 of them . This year he has gone back to diesel because all deals have ended. They seem to keep moving the goalposts. I suppose another reason is that cars are so much better made these days, less prone to rusting so people are hanging on to them. My car is 8 years old and I decided to have a look round, but I would have had to pay a lot of money out for a much lower spec so didn't bother
This is all very true. The whole car market has been destabilised and made confusing, making potential customers very unsure.

There's dieselgate making many unwilling to go that route, but what else to choose?

There's straight petrol, turbo petrol, supercharged petrol, even combined turbo and supercharged petrol. Then there's so called self charging hybrid, plug in short electric range hybrid and fully electric petrol generator hybrid. Finally fully electric cars.

It seems the motor industry are bent on wrecking their own market with all this confusion.

And then as you say there's the government interventions, first giving subsidies for hybrid and electric, then reducing them or taking them away. And not just national government, TfL in London have removed the hybrid concession for the congestion charge.

Little wonder people are hesitant to buy new with such a variable and changeable market.
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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The NFU said that? Well knock me down with a feather!

Of course they would say that! All their lovely kick-backs might end!!!
And you can pretend your American Friends are doing us a favour with their low priced sub standard factory farming junk.

While our farms lie barren because it isn't economic to grow anything.
How long are you going to keep trotting out this rather tired and dangerous nonsense?

Time you decided which side you are on, and forget all the crap about "Free Enterprise" and "Market Forces" deciding prices .
They have a place, but so in the great scheme of things does a Scrap Yard Dog, and you make sure that doesn't get out to savage members of the Public
which is what "Free Enterprise" and "Market Forces" will do if they are if not firmly controlled.

As always you demonstrate the true Tory principle of knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
 
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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
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You suggested that:

Then people will pay extra for the high Vit C ones - or not. But. They will have the choice.

They WON'T have the choice if they don't know.

You might not care. Many seem to consider oranges a good source of vitamin C and should be able readily to find out how much is present.
Sure. The one's that - like you - base at least some of their decision on how much Vit C is in there - you will be prepared to pay the extra (perhaps). For the others who just like the taste - they will probably go for the cheap stuff.

Now in your Socialist paradise you'll have a man in a suit (and beret?) trying to figure out how much of each to buy...... (central control a la Venezuela) - but in our present capitalist market-driven-system of allocating resources - you just wait to see how much of each is bought. Darn don't you just love this capitalist way of figuring stuff out?
 
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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
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And you can pretend your American Friends are doing us a favour with their low priced sub standard factory farming junk.

While our farms lie barren because it isn't economic to grow anything.
How long are you going to keep trotting out this rather tired and dangerous nonsense?

Time you decided which side you are on, and forget all the crap about "Free Enterprise" and "Market Forces" deciding prices .
They have a place, but so in the great scheme of things does a Scrap Yard Dog, and you make sure that doesn't get out to savage members of the Public
which is what "Free Enterprise" and "Market Forces" will do if they are if not firmly controlled.

As always you demonstrate the true Tory principle of knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
More nonsense from somebody who doesn't care about the consumer and only interested in the special interests at work - while claiming the opposite.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Sure. The one's that - like you - base at least some of their decision on how much Vit C is in there - you will be prepared to pay the extra (perhaps). For the others who just like the taste - they will probably go for the cheap stuff.

Now in your Socialist paradise you'll have a man in a suit (and beret?) trying to figure out how much of each to buy...... (central control a la Venezuela) - but in our present capitalist market-driven-system of allocating resources - you just wait to see how much of each is bought. Darn don't you just love this capitalist way of figuring stuff out?
Would it be this so admirable Capitalist system that got us into this Brexit disaster, or was it all a Socialist plot?

To make Brexit work you are likely to need to go back to the war time system of controlling resources, how is you fairy tale of Market forces going to appear then?
 
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OxygenJames

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Jan 8, 2012
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Where in the referendum did the leavers explain we would have to accept food that does not meet current EU standards?
What if we want food of a 'lower' standard? Ever thought of that? Like I say - what if we don't care for your 'high' standards? If I am happy with US chicken (as approx 340m Americans are) - and its 30% cheaper - why can't I buy it? Because you say so huh?
 
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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
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Would it be this so admirable Capitalist system that got us into this Brexit disaster, or was it all a Socialist plot?

To make Brexit work you are likely to need to go back to the war time system of controlling resources, how is you fairy tale of Market forces going to appear then?
Now you're just blabbering.
 

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