Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

so you think it's OK to wipe out 55,000 farmers.

Or an even simpler response:

If they can't compete: Absolutely. End of.

 

[OxygenJames]

Let's look at your statement

Which decison constitutes being spineless

1. To retreat from the EU out of irrational fear and the thought we can't hold our own with the "big Boys" and pretend that this defeat is "patriotic"?
2. To Vote to remain because we are confident that we can achieve what we want and are not too frightened to bargain with equals.

Clearly that equates with the inescapable conclusion

All spineless-attention-seeking-losers voted ....leave, and in the process left the future o Europe at the mercy of the people they feared most, Germany.

How do they deal with this fear? they rig a referendum to leave the scene of the so called conflict and leave us relying on the charity of the people they fear, who will now create a powerful Military Force that could have been part of our Defence strategy and by leaving we have ensured it is someone elses.

What a bloody silly decision,
And here we have Cowardice served as False Patriotism in a totally pathetic distortion of the truth.
Leaving the EU isn't a noble act, it's cowardly stupidity.

And look at the quality of the Leave champions
Johnson, Gove, Banks , Mogg etc., a bloody squalid lot of liars and con artists who should be in jail for the damage they have wrought to the benefit of Putin.

I thought that might get your attention.

Yes - I think on balance those that voted Leave were less scared. Of the two groups I think they were more independently minded and happy in their own skins. Closer to death. Thus less inclined to need external support - ie less on the attention -seeking side of things.

 

[Woosh]

Absolutely. Just like its OK to wipe out any number of other jobs that are not worth the value they proclaim to add. Who gains? The consumer! Joe Bloggs. Ordinary people.

Fine if you don't agree - go listen to the National Union of Farmers and their 'I want my free hand-outs' lobbyists. See what fun you'll have in their company over the long term.

after the farmers, the fishermen.
who's safe in your utopia of 'UK is a free port'?

 

[flecc]

Yup. There is a cost associated with the freedom we're supposed to be getting. It was never about the money.

The nub of the problem, parliament versus people.

To most of parliament it is about money, to the people who want to leave, it's about freedom.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Boris is right. Why take her side? Because you already made your mind up! DOH.

No, not at all, are you actually saying you agree with him?
You leavers suffer with facing reality don't you?
There won't be a Tango and a better deal, there will be a different play on words to get the result the EU wants that can be repackaged by the Right Wing lie machine to look sufficiently confusing they can con the Public it is a "Resounding Victory"

Everything is going exactly as predicted.
May will get he "Deal" passed because of fear.

That is the only emotion that surpasses greed in a Tory mind.

 

[OxygenJames]

Let's look at your statement

Which decison constitutes being spineless

1. To retreat from the EU out of irrational fear and the thought we can't hold our own with the "big Boys" and pretend that this defeat is "patriotic"?
2. To Vote to remain because we are confident that we can achieve what we want and are not too frightened to bargain with equals.

Clearly that equates with the inescapable conclusion

All spineless-attention-seeking-losers voted ....leave, and in the process left the future o Europe at the mercy of the people they feared most, Germany.

How do they deal with this fear? they rig a referendum to leave the scene of the so called conflict and leave us relying on the charity of the people they fear, who will now create a powerful Military Force that could have been part of our Defence strategy and by leaving we have ensured it is someone elses.

What a bloody silly decision,
And here we have Cowardice served as False Patriotism in a totally pathetic distortion of the truth.
Leaving the EU isn't a noble act, it's cowardly stupidity.

And look at the quality of the Leave champions
Johnson, Gove, Banks , Mogg etc., a bloody squalid lot of liars and con artists who should be in jail for the damage they have wrought to the benefit of Putin.

Putin. You think this is down to him.

Maybe you should come out with me and Dave and have a beer and forget all this nonsense.

 

[Danidl]

Or an even simpler response:

If they can't compete: Absolutely. End of.

The problem with that take on economics is knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. That model is so reductionist that it ignores all social, environmental responsibility and inevitably leads to improvishment. If all the economic costs are actually included and properly costed, different decisiond would be made.

 

[oldgroaner]

after the farmers, the fishermen.
who's safe in your utopia of 'UK is a free port'?

I can answer that, that old traditional Bell Clan activity that can be weaponised ( with a little investment) into replacing just in time supply chains.
Smuggling
Opportunity knocks if you are in the Boat hire and sales business

 

[oldgroaner]

Putin. You think this is down to him.

Maybe you should come out with me and Dave and have a beer and forget all this nonsense.

Possibly not , but he is the main beneficiary and has no doubt "interest" in how this goes

 

[50Hertz]

You're all of a sudden an expert on this huh? Only a few months ago you were voting leave and now you're a debt expert? ((((((you)))))



Now. Debt it not bad. Credit is not bad. Credit is the blessing that enables us to use resources now with a promise to pay them back (backed by people who have money to lend you) - one of the wonders of capitalism.

I’m not sure about the reference you make concerning my voting to leave, making me a debt expert. That’s quite an extraordinarily disjointed statement.

I don’t recall stating that I was an expert in debt management. I gave my opinion, which I think I’m entitled to do, unless there are rules which prevent it.

I’m not an expert, but I have spent my working life in finance and technology. I may not have as good a grasp on financial matters as you, I have an opinion, but I won’t disclose that. I retired aged 52, I will never need to work again unless something interesting comes along like the property deal I completed last year. I might not have achieved your level of financial success, again I will keep my opinion to myself, but I can buy or do more or less what I want whenever I wish. So I must have made some good financial decisions along the way and have at least a basic knowledge.

I maintain that the type of consumer credit you talk about is toxic credit. Money borrowed to enable an enterprise to be started and flourish is good credit.

I voted to leave. Now I have taken more time to think through the risks and potential implications, I would vote to remain.

I don’t consider it a necessity to over use many (( to make my points.

We will leave it there.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yup. There is a cost associated with the freedom we're supposed to be getting. It was never about the money.

No there isn't , we have lost freedom not gained it, and incurred cost in the process.
We had freedom as EU citizens, who is going to compensate us for having it stolen from us?

 

[Woosh]

I maintain that the type of consumer credit you talk about is toxic credit. Money borrowed to enable an enterprise to be started is good credit.

I agree with you on this.

 

[oldgroaner]

Absolutely brilliant ending to the BBC Six O'clock News tonight #ChocksAway

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1090732963543875584

0:16 / 0:16




2:06 PM - 30 Jan 2019
Is this a bit of fun from you, Fingers? it surely has to be spoof

 

[OxygenJames]

after the farmers, the fishermen.
who's safe in your utopia of 'UK is a free port'?

Nobody. Why do you think the scared people all voted Remain?!!

 

[OxygenJames]

Possibly not , but he is the main beneficiary and has no doubt "interest" in how this goes

So he benefits. So be it. All sorts of low-lifes may well benefit. Russia is a basket case. He is a mafia boss. Not much we can do about that.

 

[oldgroaner]

I thought that might get your attention.

Yes - I think on balance those that voted Leave were less scared. Of the two groups I think they were more independently minded and happy in their own skins. Closer to death. Thus less inclined to need external support - ie less on the attention -seeking side of things.

Not really true is it? they had simply been sold a fantasy and never thought it through, they were fightened of the future and thought they could take refuge in a mythical past.

They voted that way out of fear, not confidence, imagining by doing so they were going to be able to halt inevitable changes in society that frightened them as they saw their cosy little world apparently melting away, and all their certainties with it.

 

[flecc]

I maintain that the type of consumer credit you talk about is toxic credit. Money borrowed to enable an enterprise to be started and flourish is good credit.

Of course consumer credit can be good credit too, since it supports the businesses which start and flourish on credit. But that depends on the consumer using credit intelligently.

Unfortunately, since the inception of credit cards etc in the 1970s, a huge proportion of the UK population have used credit facilities irresponsibly, leading to personal financial crisis at each economic downturn.

Education should be the solution, instead of spending vast amounts to teach what most will never need or use, we need to teach far more about life and life skills to the majority. That is where primitive societies win over us, they give their young practical education about life and how to lead it.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

I’m not sure about the reference you make concerning my voting to leave, making me a debt expert. That’s quite an extraordinarily disjointed statement.

I don’t recall stating that I was an expert in debt management. I gave my opinion, which I think I’m entitled to do, unless there are rules which prevent it.

I’m not an expert, but I have spent my working life in finance and technology. I may not have as good a grasp on financial matters as you, I have an opinion, but I won’t disclose that. I retired aged 52, I will never need to work again unless something interesting comes along like the property deal I completed last year. I might not have achieved your level of financial success, again I will keep my opinion to myself, but I can buy or do more or less what I want whenever I wish. So I must have made some good financial decisions along the way and have at least a basic knowledge.

I maintain that the type of consumer credit you talk about is toxic credit. Money borrowed to enable an enterprise to be started and flourish is good credit.

I voted to leave. Now I have taken more time to think through the risks and potential implications, I would vote to remain.

I don’t consider it a necessity to over use many (( to make my points.

We will leave it there.

Yes you're right - credit can be abused like pretty much anything else. I meant no dis-respect. Apologies if it came over like that.

 

[OxygenJames]

Not really true is it? they had simply been sold a fantasy and never thought it through, they were fightened of the future and thought they could take refuge in a mythical past.

They voted that way out of fear, not confidence, imagining by doing so they were going to be able to halt inevitable changes in society that frightened them as they saw their cosy little world apparently melting away, and all their certainties with it.

Sure. Well that's your opinion and I have mine. And in this country the way we get to determine who has their way - is to vote. Them's is the breaks.

I'm on your side OG. It may not look like it but I am. I hate all the corruption and the crap that counts for government.

 

[OxygenJames]

Of course consumer credit can be good credit too, since it supports the businesses which start and flourish on credit. But that depends on the consumer using credit intelligently.

Unfortunately, since the inception of credit cards etc in the 1970s, a huge proportion of the UK population have used credit facilities irresponsibly, leading to personal financial crisis at each economic downturn.

Education should be the solution, instead of spending vast amounts to teach what most will never need or use, we need to teach far more about life and life skills to the majority. That is where primitive societies win over us, they give their young practical education about life and how to lead it.
.

Yes - BUT - since the 1970s we have become almost unmeasurably more wealthy! Partly because of the greater availability of credit. Really.